What makes a "British" car?

[john.wigley]

My goodness!! I little thought when I posed my initial question that it would generate as much debate as if I had posted any contentious political or religious thread!

Thank you all for your responses. In the very early days, I believe that, while Ford was always American owned, Vauxhall, which, just as Volvo grew out of SKF, developed from the Vauxhall Iron Works and remained English until taken over much later by General Motors.

I am aware also that, unlike my 360, my 1.7 340 had a Renault engine. As others have said, many manufactures, particularly the smaller ones, bought / buy in foreign components as a matter of course, but that does not prevent them from being in my view products of their country of origin. It is much as Jon (Prufrock) points out regarding Volvo's use of British components; the completed cars were are still seen as of Swedish origin (even if they were assembled in Belgium!).

I'm now even less sure what makes a 'British' car!

Regards, John.

[cheshired5]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

someone might object to designed by an Italian !

If something is foreign owned or foreign built, it wouldn't be classed as British so how can something that is foreign designed?
"Look at this British thing which we haven't designed!", hailed no one ever.

As someone said at the start of this thread.....

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Depends on your definition

[Harvey1512]

On subject - We supply into the Auto electronics industry. The majority of cars built in this country, and frankly most of Europe, have their electronics made in Spain and Portugal. There are other places but they are the main hubs for these items.

The reality is you get specialist companies making certain parts for the whole industry. These are then shipped all over. Brakes made in one country, air bags another. Exhausts in a different one, power steering different again.

Some items are made locally, part of JIT, but the days of any car being truly British, French, German etc are long gone. They are European cars, Far Eastern Cars, North American cars.

If you want to feel you are helping the British economy then I would be buying from a mfr who screws them together in this country, eg Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Mini. They employ the most people so whether the components are made here or not, it doesn't matter.

[canis]

Ford GB can be considered to be British, since from the very beginning it was always Henry's intention that the American, British and German divisions were to remain seperate and in direct competition with each other. Naturally they shared parts, but this was always a business arrangement as if it had been any company.

Using parts manufactured in another country doesn't immediately render a vehicle foreign. It is perfectly acceptable to manufacture a british product using foreign parts providing they pay the going rate. And of course, there are import duties.

In any case, whether one argues for or against, in the 1970s Ford were considered to be a British make by everyone. I deeply regret not visiting the Dagenham plant back when it was still operational, but one tends to put these things off as if tomorrow never comes. A bit like Cats (the musical).

In the meantime, how about this:

Now you can't say Aveling & Porter aren't british! This is engine 721, and is the oldest (according to wikipedia, hurriedly googled by me just now) surviving Aveling & Porter engine. Yes, I know, it predates the 1930s, but it's an excuse to gaze upon a steam tractor, which is always nice for any reason. :-)

[Harvey1512]

Do Ford make any cars in the UK any more? I thought they had closed down.

[canis]

Originally Posted by Harvey1512

Do Ford make any cars in the UK any more? I thought they had closed down.

Not any more. Even my 1992 Sierra was manufactured in Germany.

[S60D5-185]

Originally Posted by cheshired5

If something is foreign owned or foreign built, it wouldn't be classed as British so how can something that is foreign designed?
"Look at this British thing which we haven't designed!", hailed no one ever.

As someone said at the start of this thread.....

Simon, I think that British is a very hard thing to accurately categorise or define.

In the early 1970's I had a Saphire Blue, Triumph TR6 ( 150 bhp version) and that was not styled in house if memory serves me well.

Would I class an early TR6 as British ? For me yes.

[biggbn]

Tr6 was, if I recall, karmann styled, breaking with the michelotti tradition. Brutality as a four wheeler brick, when the pi worked properly...

[Prufrock]

Originally Posted by canis

Not any more. Even my 1992 Sierra was manufactured in Germany.

Ford made it's last car in the UK in 2002 (Sierras were built allover the world including Cologne, Dagenham & Genk), Transit were made in Southampton (in the former Supermarine factory), that close in 2013.

A little off topic guys but relevant, I predict Ford will offshore it's considerable UK presence (building diesel engines in Dageham and Bridgend) after Brexit, maybe not immediately but it will happen.

Jon.

[Prufrock]

Originally Posted by biggbn

Tr6 was, if I recall, karmann styled, breaking with the michelotti tradition. Brutality as a four wheeler brick, when the pi worked properly...

This has come up before, I had an Emerald Green TR6 and the front and rear ends were restyled by Karmann simply because Michelotti hadn't the capacity at the time. The fuel injection worked properly with a Bosch pump and properly set up - mine was a 2.7 with a chassis by Racestorations.

So the TR6 is a Italian/German hybrid styling wise.

Jon.