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PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

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New (to me) 1963 Volvo 122

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Old Jun 20th, 2022, 16:26   #911
Laird Scooby
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Thank you Dave, all that is obvious, but I'm still not convinced it is the issue.

The solenoid (Bosch 033130203) is rated at 15A maximum and the momentary switch is only a few months old. I don't think it is gradually developing bad sectors, I think it probably had a manufacturing defect with one bad sector. That is my theory - I'm just going to monitor the issue, if it stays as it is now I'll suspect I'm right; If the MTBF becomes less I'll know it is failing and have to replace it, plus probably fit a relay at the same time.

Perhaps I should have explained Dave, that my reason for fitting a more substantial momentary switch isn't to handle more current (the one there should take 15A), but because that is what I happen to have in my auto spares box.

Alan
From your description and my experience having diagnosed and repaired thousands in my time of similar faults, i'd say i was pretty near the cause of the problem Alan. Usually the switches are made with one "washer" attached to the actual button and then two smaller contacts in the base of the switch - as the button is pushed this "washer" bridges them out connecting the circuit.

The 15A rating on the solenoid is likely to be the holding current, the pull-in current will be about 2-3 times that figure and then you also have the inrush current on top of that. You will almost certainly find the pushbutton rated at 15A is for resistive loadds only, not inductive and if it has an inductive current rating, it's likely to be in the region of 6A continuous and no inrush current rating.
I also know from experience that the inrush current of the pull-in coil in the solenoid is in excess of 60A, the pull-in coil takes about 60A and then the hold-in is usually about 20-30A . Keep an eye on it and see what happens but i wouldn't mind betting you end up fitting a relay.
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Old Jun 20th, 2022, 16:47   #912
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From your description and my experience having diagnosed and repaired thousands in my time of similar faults, i'd say i was pretty near the cause of the problem Alan. Usually the switches are made with one "washer" attached to the actual button and then two smaller contacts in the base of the switch - as the button is pushed this "washer" bridges them out connecting the circuit.

The 15A rating on the solenoid is likely to be the holding current, the pull-in current will be about 2-3 times that figure and then you also have the inrush current on top of that. You will almost certainly find the pushbutton rated at 15A is for resistive loadds only, not inductive and if it has an inductive current rating, it's likely to be in the region of 6A continuous and no inrush current rating.
I also know from experience that the inrush current of the pull-in coil in the solenoid is in excess of 60A, the pull-in coil takes about 60A and then the hold-in is usually about 20-30A . Keep an eye on it and see what happens but i wouldn't mind betting you end up fitting a relay.
A fascinating discussion Dave. It might be interesting if Ron (Kwas) sees this and has a view; I wonder whether he has a handle on the MTBF for momentary switches in this application?

Alan
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Old Jun 21st, 2022, 13:48   #913
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I have a push switch on my Estate. As far as I know there is no relay hidden away. It was on the car when I bought it about 12 years ago. An ordinary looking switch. If the car hasn't been started for many weeks it can take 20-25 seconds churning to get fuel to the carbs. The switch appears to handle this OK and I've never noticed it get warm. This switch would appear to have an adequate rating but it is only in the small wire to the solenoid. All the amps are being routed through the solenoid. This, in its own way is acting like a relay.
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Old Jun 21st, 2022, 14:24   #914
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Forum;

Track record has shown that no additional relay is required, but a momentary Start Switch with a minimum 10-15A rating is suggested. As pointed out, it is switching the highly inductive Sol, so the contacts of a switch with any lower rating would not survive for long.

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Old Jun 21st, 2022, 21:53   #915
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Forum;

Track record has shown that no additional relay is required, but a momentary Start Switch with a minimum 10-15A rating is suggested. As pointed out, it is switching the highly inductive Sol, so the contacts of a switch with any lower rating would not survive for long.

Cheers
Many thanks, much my thoughts. The momentary switch is substantial enough I think, I wouldn’t have thought the contact area was much different to that within the (redundant) starter contact of the ignition switch.

Alan
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Old Jun 21st, 2022, 22:00   #916
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I have a push switch on my Estate. As far as I know there is no relay hidden away. It was on the car when I bought it about 12 years ago. An ordinary looking switch. If the car hasn't been started for many weeks it can take 20-25 seconds churning to get fuel to the carbs. The switch appears to handle this OK and I've never noticed it get warm. This switch would appear to have an adequate rating but it is only in the small wire to the solenoid. All the amps are being routed through the solenoid. This, in its own way is acting like a relay.
I think you are right.

Alan
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Old Jun 25th, 2022, 16:43   #917
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What a cool video that is. It is slightly surprising that some enterprising (probably Chinese) chap has not put that into manufacture.

I found this demount duck head on Amazon for only £7.06 Dave:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANON-Chang...-40&th=1&psc=1

... at that price it might be worth getting just to experiment. Can you see any reason why this wouldn't work? If not I'll order one and fabricate something similar to the You Tube one out of bits in my scrap box.

:-)

Alan

PS. I've gone ahead and ordered the 28mm Sanon duck head Dave - it was only £7 delivered (and I suppose if it turned out to be unsuitable I could return it for free with Amazon Prime - although I'm hardly likely to bother at that price). When it arrives I'll have a look for some scrap to weld up into the support bracket. I'll need to find some sort of cone for centreing as well (the chap in the video used an old bearing race). I enjoy projects like this :-)
I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone put together something for the UK market as we saw in the video (which is available for about $399 on ebay apparently) and here it is :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234598310810

A "bolt on" upgrade for £200 or to be more exact, £199.95 on ebay. Mine was cobbled together from pieces of scrap, rough welding etc just to prove the concept. I do intend building a better version and painting it eventually but also looking into a rotary bead breaker and then motorising the whole shooting match. Reckon my whole budget for building the "new improved" version and motorising it will be less than £200 so i won't be buying one anytime soon!
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Old Jun 27th, 2022, 11:42   #918
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I have just popped out to get some gas in Aunt Maud, it was such a lovely day that I came home the long way via East Carlton (a very pretty village). Here is GAM admiring the lovely Northamptonshire countryside:



... and another:



Even though I say so myself, GAM looks a very smart motor car indeed.

The steering is spot on now, and I think that completes all the jobs I had intended to do for the moment (until I paint and fit the new rear doors in the summer).

I have noticed the fuel gauge is very inaccurate, it was reading almost empty but took only 4 gallons to fill to the brim. It would probably be sensible to use the odometer rather than the gauge to work out when it needs filling, so I'll get into the habit of re-setting it to zero when I fill up.

:-)
Just a quick observation from sunny Sydney, your overiders are at the wrong end for each of them. The slimmer tapered pair are fixed to the front bumper and vice versa. Just an observation, I'm enjoying following your thread, keep it up.
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Old Jun 28th, 2022, 23:33   #919
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Just a quick observation from sunny Sydney, your overiders are at the wrong end for each of them. The slimmer tapered pair are fixed to the front bumper and vice versa. Just an observation, I'm enjoying following your thread, keep it up.
Gosh! What an eye for detail you have.

:-)
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Old Jul 6th, 2022, 12:22   #920
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Default Back to red wheels for the summer...

The silver wheels with lower profile tyres were a great success, but as I'd originally intended, I've reverted to the red wheels (165/80 tyres and very shiny hubcaps) for the summer:



... GAM looks quite stately in comparison. Overall I think I slightly prefer the silver wheels; I'll put them back on the motor car in November for the winter.

One downside is that the speedometer will read slow again with the 165/80 tyres fitted - I'll go out to test by how much against the GPS app on my cell phone in a mo.

Alan :-)

PS. And the answer is: the speedo reads 10% slow with the larger tyres.
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