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Starting issue still.

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Old Nov 21st, 2020, 02:46   #1
Bashy
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Default Starting issue still.

This is a little odd. It seems to have gotten worse, I think its the colder weather because during the summer it was much better after changing the plugs and fuel filter, anyway...

1, If i do not use the car for 2 or more days and its a cold morning, it wont start on the 1st turn of the key regardless of how many turnovers.
It will start on the 2nd turn of the key and 1st crank though, its instant.

2, as above 2 days or more without usage, if its mild, roughly about 10C+, it will start on about the 4/5th crank.

3, if I use the car the next morning after a shopping run (30miles all in) the morning before, starting is not an issue.

4, If i use the car in the morning, even just for the dog run (2miles all in at about 6am) the car is fine 2nd use of the day, even if its at say 2:30pm, cant say for later as i don't go out in the afternoons as a rule.

5, If i don't use the car for a few days but i do put it on charge, ie playing with Vida, it will start fine the next day.


The above is telling me it might be a power issue, could it be draining from somewhere? the issue seems to be after 2 or more days, but its not really any worse compared 2 days or 5 days
Could it be a lazy starter motor, is that a thing? lol

Very hard to run cranking tests with a voltmeter as its just me on me lonesome, being a hermit has its drawbacks
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Old Nov 21st, 2020, 10:22   #2
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Point 5 is the strange one. If you hadn't put that id have suspected glowplugs or power to them.

I cant see it been a battery issue not with been able to crank it over a good number of times and then it starting on a second attempt.

Id be suspecting low fuel pressure - or air entering the system causing it to drop, but does sound a stranger one.

Extend the multimeter cables with some wire and tape so it can balance on the windscreen.
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Old Nov 21st, 2020, 11:16   #3
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probably a loose wire / connector on starter - its contracting in the cold and making a better connection
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Old Nov 22nd, 2020, 01:18   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrybritcher View Post
probably a loose wire / connector on starter - its contracting in the cold and making a better connection
I think we can rule that out, re point 5,

Quote:
5, If i don't use the car for a few days but i do put it on charge, ie playing with Vida, it will start fine the next day.
I had to charge it for Vida a while back, stayed on charge for an hour or so whilst i was playing. It started fine. its as though its loosing a little charge somewhere but then, why when I've not used it will it start fine on the 2nd crank, perhaps there's 2 minor issues made worse the colder the morning.

There was a time when i thought letting the fuel pump in the tank fully prime 2 times, it deffo started on the 1st go, but, it could also because i drove it the previous day, ie the 20+ miles shopping, if its just the short 2 mile round trip to their walk, i get the issue the next day, if i do the 2 miler 1st thing and then do the shopping at 7:40 it starts 1st time too.

Had the problem since before i bought a new battery (old one prob fine)
I thought it improved after new battery, certainly did for a few days, same again when i got new glow plugs and fuel filter, seemed better for a short while, but perhaps its getting worse cause the mornings are colder?

I haven't tried, crank once and let go, then crank again to see if that does anything, will try that this morning, i don't like to experiment too much cause its when i take the dogs out sometime between 5:30 and 6:30.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2020, 03:30   #5
Laird Scooby
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Sounds very much like a lazy starter, hogging all the available power from the battery and still not fast enough to spin it over to get the compression you need to fire the engine.

If you'd like a hand to do the cranking tests at a sensible hour of the day (afternoon) give me a shout.

If you have a jump-pack, connect that for the first start of the day and see if that improves matters.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2020, 08:41   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
Sounds very much like a lazy starter, hogging all the available power from the battery and still not fast enough to spin it over to get the compression you need to fire the engine.

If you'd like a hand to do the cranking tests at a sensible hour of the day (afternoon) give me a shout.

If you have a jump-pack, connect that for the first start of the day and see if that improves matters.
I did think about the starter being the issue but, if the car was used for say shopping to Thetford Tesco, and start the car the next morning, it turns over fast enough, its like it should be, I didn't try the 1 turn over then release and try again this morning because of that very reason, so I left if for about 5 cranks, it was quick to turn over for the 1st 2 or 3 then you could tell it slowing a little, I let go and cranked again and it fired 1st turn over.

Re the jump pack idea, I don't have one, but I have left a charger on all day on auto, didn't start the car till the next morning and it turned over quickly but if I rem correctly it still didn't bite for a few cranks but it was quick turning over.

I will look at starter motors, I've fit them on other cars so should be ok with that job

Re the offer of help, afternoons is when it usually starts without too much issue, its the colder mornings where the issue lies, thank you though

I also still have the noisy (ticking) injector, I have a feeling that could be playing a part in this, I think a fuel delivery issue is the main cause that's exasperated by a less than 100% electrical issue, as you said, poss starter motor.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2020, 08:46   #7
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Don't get euro car parts starter. I had to return mine as the housing was slightly thicker so would foul ie not fit
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Old Nov 22nd, 2020, 08:51   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrybritcher View Post
Don't get euro car parts starter. I had to return mine as the housing was slightly thicker so would foul ie not fit
Thanks for the heads up

I have a spare injector, so I am googling reconditioners, the one in Bury ST is closed due to blooming covid, how inconsiderate, would have been ideal so there is EDS or Attleborough
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Old Nov 22nd, 2020, 11:08   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashy View Post
I did think about the starter being the issue but, if the car was used for say shopping to Thetford Tesco, and start the car the next morning, it turns over fast enough, its like it should be, I didn't try the 1 turn over then release and try again this morning because of that very reason, so I left if for about 5 cranks, it was quick to turn over for the 1st 2 or 3 then you could tell it slowing a little, I let go and cranked again and it fired 1st turn over.

Re the jump pack idea, I don't have one, but I have left a charger on all day on auto, didn't start the car till the next morning and it turned over quickly but if I rem correctly it still didn't bite for a few cranks but it was quick turning over.

I will look at starter motors, I've fit them on other cars so should be ok with that job

Re the offer of help, afternoons is when it usually starts without too much issue, its the colder mornings where the issue lies, thank you though

I also still have the noisy (ticking) injector, I have a feeling that could be playing a part in this, I think a fuel delivery issue is the main cause that's exasperated by a less than 100% electrical issue, as you said, poss starter motor.
It could also be worth removing, cleaning and refitting all the electrical heavy power connections on the starter circuit and also on the glow plugs. You may also have some weak glow plugs.

Do you know when they were last changed?

There is also Brandon Autoelectrics, on the Swaffham road out of Brandon, past the level crossing but before the concrete place.
They should be able to supply a recon starter and new glow plugs.

Does that noisy injector give a misfire when the engine is running? If not it's probably not effecting the cold start. Might not be helping in the great scheme of things but probably not hindering at this stage either.
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Old Nov 22nd, 2020, 11:29   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
It could also be worth removing, cleaning and refitting all the electrical heavy power connections on the starter circuit and also on the glow plugs. You may also have some weak glow plugs.

Do you know when they were last changed?

There is also Brandon Autoelectrics, on the Swaffham road out of Brandon, past the level crossing but before the concrete place.
They should be able to supply a recon starter and new glow plugs.

Does that noisy injector give a misfire when the engine is running? If not it's probably not effecting the cold start. Might not be helping in the great scheme of things but probably not hindering at this stage either.
Hi, I changed the plugs a few months back with Bosch ones BUT, they were second user, and at 1st, they made starting beautiful again, it was slow prior, pretty much like it is now, mmm, spose there is a clue there......

Thanks re Brandon Auto Electrics

I was about to say no misfire, because prior to putting in this other injector, there was quite a bad one, so I nearly forgot, yes, there is still a slight misfire for a few minutes, 2 clues there I spose lol I forget the important things..... :/
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