Question for the MOT examiners.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by DaveNP

It's not just a Volvo thing. Slightly different department but our trucks at work, all relatively new, often don't play nicely with some of the trailers, often the newer trailers; it's almost routine to get a dashboard warning for failed lights but on checking visually there's no problem, the only solution is to get the tech in who then has to reset or install programming/firmware to the truck/trailer. It would seem that there are a number of manufacturers and systems and none of them are prepared to tell the others what they are doing, presumably on the basis of 'commercial advantage', and the consumer has to deal with the fallout, way back when ABS was first coming in it was a similar situation but the safety angle seemed to get them all to cooperate in the end.

In that case, let me rephrase "i think Volvo should be explaining a few things" to "i think ALL manufacturers should be explaining a lot of things!".

It was the same with OBD then OBD-II until it was eventually agreed there should be common standards so a generic code reader could decipher all DTCs from all vehicles. Volvo, Rover, Chrysler and Toyota/Lexus were just 4 of those that resisted with their own OBD protocols but eventually complied with a common protocol. Seems that trailer electrics should also be made to a common standard as none of the manufacturers can stipulate whose trailer you buy, whether it's a 4'x3' garden trailer to run to the tip through a single axle 2-berth caravan for the occasional weekend away to a twin axle 18' car transporter trailer or a 6-berth 22' caravan the one thing they all have in common (except maybe the garden trailer) is they all need lights and as the lights are made to conform on a car, so should the trailer lights.

Any commercial advantage is currently being lost as many people will simply get fed up trying to hook their chosen caravan to their new car unsuccessfully and go and buy a different car that does work with their trailer. The sooner manufacturers realise that and cooperate the better for all concerned!

Alternatively, bring back 7-pin trailer electrics with a dedicated outlet port on all new vehicles that isn't even remotely connected to the poxy CANBus system!

[Ian21401]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Alternatively, bring back 7-pin trailer electrics with a dedicated outlet port on all new vehicles that isn't even remotely connected to the poxy CANBus system!

Far too simple and common sense Dave. I have twin 7 pin on my 940, wired by me through a bypass relay and a smart relay. Am I right in thinking that the 13 pin was foisted on us by the EU?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Ian21401

Far too simple and common sense Dave. I have twin 7 pin on my 940, wired by me through a bypass relay and a smart relay. Am I right in thinking that the 13 pin was foisted on us by the EU?

Spot-on with the EU insisting we had the 13-pin socket Ian, like they forced us to rescind our own law about dim-dip lighting in the late 80s because they couldn't make reliable relays - it was a simple circuit but the Europeans over-complicated things (what a surprise!) and made it too complicated to build-in cheaply.

As you say, the 7-pin sockets are far too simple and too much like common sense!

[andy_d]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

In that case, let me rephrase "i think Volvo should be explaining a few things" to "i think ALL manufacturers should be explaining a lot of things!".

It was the same with OBD then OBD-II until it was eventually agreed there should be common standards so a generic code reader could decipher all DTCs from all vehicles. Volvo, Rover, Chrysler and Toyota/Lexus were just 4 of those that resisted with their own OBD protocols but eventually complied with a common protocol. Seems that trailer electrics should also be made to a common standard as none of the manufacturers can stipulate whose trailer you buy, whether it's a 4'x3' garden trailer to run to the tip through a single axle 2-berth caravan for the occasional weekend away to a twin axle 18' car transporter trailer or a 6-berth 22' caravan the one thing they all have in common (except maybe the garden trailer) is they all need lights and as the lights are made to conform on a car, so should the trailer lights.

Any commercial advantage is currently being lost as many people will simply get fed up trying to hook their chosen caravan to their new car unsuccessfully and go and buy a different car that does work with their trailer. The sooner manufacturers realise that and cooperate the better for all concerned!

Alternatively, bring back 7-pin trailer electrics with a dedicated outlet port on all new vehicles that isn't even remotely connected to the poxy CANBus system!

but "its our system" means you Have to fork out at the stealers for everything, far more profit ,, common sense that :P (if your an accountant only)

volvo didnt cave on odbII ,, most Generic readers can not talk to 90% (and rising) in a post 2004 volvo, get to 2014 and it gets even worse,, you Can not get the sw or hardware to talk to/service etc the car ,,,despite that being Against UK and EU laws,,,


bring back 7 pin x2 sockets and plugs,, shoot accountants (with lawyers :P ) and scrap canbus ,,
Plain copper wire of the correct gauge Works ,,

oh and get us out of the EU ,, scrapping EU-bs laws as we go :P the world wouldnt be a better place but the UK would,,

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by andy_d

but "its our system" means you Have to fork out at the stealers for everything, far more profit ,, common sense that :P (if your an accountant only)

volvo didnt cave on odbII ,, most Generic readers can not talk to 90% (and rising) in a post 2004 volvo, get to 2014 and it gets even worse,, you Can not get the sw or hardware to talk to/service etc the car ,,,despite that being Against UK and EU laws,,,


bring back 7 pin x2 sockets and plugs,, shoot accountants (with lawyers :P ) and scrap canbus ,,
Plain copper wire of the correct gauge Works ,,

oh and get us out of the EU ,, scrapping EU-bs laws as we go :P the world wouldnt be a better place but the UK would,,

"But it's our system" is what's generally known as creating a monopoly which, last time i checked, was still illegal.

Ditto on the OBD-II, however i think they have a loophole (or should that be poophole?) whereby they can restrict access to certain areas and make them "Dealer only" as a generic spanner-monkey might not realise the implications of over-riding a particular setting. I used deliberately derogatory language to describe the technician/mechanic because i wanted to illustrate the attitude behind it. (Disclaimer for snowflakes! )

As for the bean-counters (the worst kind of accountants) they along with the lawyers that are only out for themselves should be tied in all the red-tape that CANBus has created and put up against a wall and hung - it's money saving as the rope can be reused, pleasing not on the greeny-eco-trendy-woke-virtue signalling-etc set but accountants the world over.

A good old 12N (Normal) and 12S (Supplementary) pair of towing sockets is much easier to fit, wire and diagnose if they ever go wrong which is less likely as there's less to go wrong!

Simple copper wire and switches worked for over a century, if it ain't broke, why fix it? People have become obsessed with computerising everything - washing machines, cookers, fridges and so on, all with WiFi? Behave! A washing machine takes in water, heats it up, tumbles it around then pumps it out and spins the clothes at the end of the pumping out bit. Why does that need a Wi-Fi connection?
Likewise why do cars need computers to control sidelights, indicators, stop lights etc? It's complication for the sake of it.

Just wait until there's an EMP blast and it all goes horribly wrong!

[andy_d]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

"But it's our system" is what's generally known as creating a monopoly which, last time i checked, was still illegal.

Ditto on the OBD-II, however i think they have a loophole (or should that be poophole?) whereby they can restrict access to certain areas and make them "Dealer only" as a generic spanner-monkey might not realise the implications of over-riding a particular setting. I used deliberately derogatory language to describe the technician/mechanic because i wanted to illustrate the attitude behind it. (Disclaimer for snowflakes! )

As for the bean-counters (the worst kind of accountants) they along with the lawyers that are only out for themselves should be tied in all the red-tape that CANBus has created and put up against a wall and hung - it's money saving as the rope can be reused, pleasing not on the greeny-eco-trendy-woke-virtue signalling-etc set but accountants the world over.

A good old 12N (Normal) and 12S (Supplementary) pair of towing sockets is much easier to fit, wire and diagnose if they ever go wrong which is less likely as there's less to go wrong!

Simple copper wire and switches worked for over a century, if it ain't broke, why fix it? People have become obsessed with computerising everything - washing machines, cookers, fridges and so on, all with WiFi? Behave! A washing machine takes in water, heats it up, tumbles it around then pumps it out and spins the clothes at the end of the pumping out bit. Why does that need a Wi-Fi connection?
Likewise why do cars need computers to control sidelights, indicators, stop lights etc? It's complication for the sake of it.

Just wait until there's an EMP blast and it all goes horribly wrong!

tell me about it ,, "wifi" with everything,, there was a car (non volvo) where the main focus of the adverts to sell it was "it has wifi hotspot",, thankfully it was / is a POS car anyway by a "oh god no not them" manuf, but cmon ,, "its got wifi " as a selling tool,, and the clownshoes bought em ,,,

i no longer give a flying coconut about upsetting snowflakes ,, too many of them and ,, dont forget the media who tell us we "cant go out" when theres almost an inch of snow :P

not sure on hanging them ,, even with re-usable rope,, shooting the beancounter with the ambulance chasers (via an air cannon,, powered by the hot air/methane from the house of parliament ?) and when (if?? ) the "saveeverything/ohnoesyoucantdothat" treefrog hugging eco muppets complain seasy "its ok your next"

Totally agree with you on the "its our system" being an illegal monopoly, same as the "well tis saftey isnt it " BS volvo now pull for making it impossible to Service the car, never mind repair it,,,
having said that tho,, have you Seen the IQ of a lot of the snowflakes and most of the eco-ohnoesyoucantdo/thinkthat mobs,,, they "needed" keyless entry and a big "push to start button" ,,,

[morwenna240]

" Dear Volvo, i would like to buy a new XC whatever. Can i have 7 pin trailer leccy, please? No? Ok i'm off to by a ... . (other foolish vehicle of choice)."

An, S60 185, I don't bother arguing with idiots, either. If occasion allows, just flush them under a passing Electra-Glide.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by andy_d

have you Seen the IQ of a lot of the snowflakes and most of the eco-ohnoesyoucantdo/thinkthat mobs,,, they "needed" keyless entry and a big "push to start button" ,,,

All the more reason to keep those unconscious incompetents away from the primary controls of any car on the planet!

[Ian21401]

Trailer wiring now working as it should, apart from battery charging.

Replacement Trailer Module was received from P F Jones. Different brand name but same "Made by mkem EU", additional "C" at end of part number and V2.0









Replacement module installed. Green LED is steady, indicating it is powered up and ready.
So took car to storage to couple up to the van. When coupled up the green LED changed to flashing, indicating that the trailer is coupled. All van road lights operated correctly. Unfortunately there is still no "reverse lights off" or "fog lights off" function, but there wasn't with the old module so that is not a problem and can be lived with.

Regarding the "Self Switching Combi Relay".



Not having a van battery charge facility does not seriously affect the use of the van as it usually sited somewhere with EHU. But, having trawled around for information regarding this, the current situation with 13 pin electrics appears to be far from ideal. I am much happier with my twin 7 pin system. If it were my car I would seriously consider converting it to twin 7 pin.

I have ready elsewhere that some people have found that the fridge and battery feeds have become live as soon as the car ignition is switched on but the engine not yet started, (not good) and some have found them becoming live with the engine started but just idling, (still not good). The ideal would be the relay sensing the alternator output voltage and only switching in when a specific voltage was present. Because of this I checked ours and found that the feed to the fridge only becomes live when the engine revs increase and the alternator output voltage increases, so that seems good.

However, there is still the question as to why the battery charge feed is not there. The Combi Relay can be seen to have what appear to be two separate relays and six terminals but only has three wires connected to it, ie: 12v, 0v and (2), so it would appear that only one relay is actually operational. I presume that 12v is live and 0v is earth and (2) is the feed to our fridge via pin 10. I realise that in our case this does not make any difference, but, from various sites elsewhere it appears that (2) should actually be the feed to the van battery, but there is no dedicated pin for a feed to the van battery, (6) should be the feed to the fridge, via pin 10, and (4) should be the permanent live 12v supply to the van via pin 9.


Various information elsewhere indicates that the spare terminal/pin 12 in the 13 pin plug "is not allocated" and may be used for various purposes, one of which could be a feed to charge the van battery, or the van fridge, but it could also be to a Trailer Stability System if such a system was fitted, or anything else for that matter.
Some information suggests that the van battery could be fed by the same pin as the fridge, ie: pin 10, but that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I just think that the 13 pin system is worse that the good old twin 7 pin system and I cannot see the sense of it.

Rant over.

[apersson850]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I don't see the logic in testing the electrics on a tow bar, it doesn't effect the safety of the car during normal use and there is more likley to be a fault on the trailer than the tow vehicle anyway. Maybe the next thing they'll add to the MoT will be that any vehicle equipped with a towbar needs to be presented with the trailer/caravan it tows so that can be inspected too!

In Sweden, the trailer electrics gets inspected only when you show up to actually inspect the trailer. But if you have several cars with a towing hitch at your disposal, this means that the electrics of some of them doesn't ever have to be inspected.