D5 (D5244T to 2005) Starting issue, rough running

[cheshired5]

Originally Posted by harrympotter

15 secs of cranking

Was it at >300000hpa throughout the 15 seconds of cranking?
Include the RPM value in the cranking Parameters too.

[harrympotter]

Sorry i've stripped her down for a Pierburg actuator change.

I feel the pressure build up (hpa) from the electric fuel tank transfer is slightly slow. (when compared to our 1.6D C30 not the same I know) and the battery on this project car is SHOT (Volvo original) always on my charger.

in around 3 seconds hpa is up to 250,000hpa, rises to 300,000 it does spike to 400,000 as it caughs and splutters, and drops down to 300,000.

Cant give RPM sorry stripped down. once started (idle) its bubbles around 350,000

what concerned me is that it would not rise over 460,000hpa with a dab or boot full on the throttle.

I have replaced (scrap yard item) the Engine driven HP fuel pump inc the control valve with identical Part No & 163 bhp model, bled it, and the results were the same. Orginal now back on, bled, and the same.

Whats your thought process?

I do have a scrappy complete fuel rail inc pressure sensor & overpressure valve.

Did you read the Pinking noise I have under load/acceleration.

[harrympotter]

hope you see the graph, rebuilt the car, still awaiting egr actuator.

[cheshired5]

Fuel pressure increase appears to be ok.
I would say that 154 rpm is too low but when it notches up slightly (probably to 200+) the engine fires up.
I have a general starting video here and a more specific starter motor testing video here.
Low cranking rpm could a worn battery, worn starter, voltage drop through worn wiring/poor connections or a combination of all of them.
Even false coolant temperature information can cause problems as it determines fueling.

My personal method of solving starting problems involves testing everything and removing nothing until I can eliminate the various possibilities.

[harrympotter]

I'm back in the country from working abroad and back on the project.

Lets role it back to basics, resolve the 154 / 158 RPM too slow cranking.

Cheshired5 Very helpful video on starting & starter motor overhaul.

So I know:

New Battery 12.6V

On Cranking Voltage Loss
Positive V loss 0.48V
Neg V loss 0.72V (bad - need to clean up connections)

Current clamp MAX draw 114A - Issue!

So does that mean the starter motor is not drawing enough amps to spin the engine up fast enough, due to being warn out?

Very saddening to find that I do not have a BOSCH starter...
I have a DRS 8911? suspect 2014 manufacture.

For my S60 VIDA P/N 36050276 / 36050272

Is the low clamp amps pointing to a duff/worn starter motor, resulting in low cranking RPM?

[cheshired5]

Based on the above figures, I would suspect the main earth lead from the engine to the chassis.
It's made up of many copper strands and some can break internally near the connectors causing voltage drop.
If you have a know good jump lead, you could connect that to the engine block and chassis instead as a bypass to see if that improves matters.

The earth strap is also the main conduit for return current for other engine components so could realistically cause running issues.

Thank you too btw for your kind gesture. much appreciated.

[harrympotter]

So armed with micro-mech paper (basically very fine wet/dry sand paper) needle files and a big hand file. Purchased a better multi-meter with Min/Max and data HOLD.

1st. I cleaned to a shiny brass finish the positive terminal (jump start post) and plate at the fuse box location, inc the two thick flat plate connectors with thick red wires.

2nd Cleaned up the 2 flat plate connectors at the starter motor main +ve feed, the starter motor post, and solenoid post.

3rd cleaned up the engine earth point metal face, and flat plate connector on the engine-chassis earth cable.

4th The earth cable (3rd) to chassis connector, OMG! it was riddled with dissimilar metal and deep pitting corrosion. I had to use a file to remove corrosion from the earth stud chassis top hat.

Bolted heads wire brushed, and rebuilt.
Hoping she would just jump into life....LOL

Testing:
STATIC BATT 12.68V

Voltage Loss

POSITIVE WIRE 0.45V
NEGATIVE STRAP 0.18V (YouTube Vid 0.06V)

Cranking

BATT 8.62V Bad! Where does the 4V Go?

Max Amps on Clamp seen in the boot Positive Wire 141 Amp Low!

RPM, better 170/180 RPM

Jump start cable gave very similar results to post clean results.


BATT @ crank worrying 8.62V
NegVE earth Strap could be better,
RPM could be higher 200+
AMPS still LOW on cranking

Should I buy a new earth strap?
Is there a second engine/chassis earth?
Still a little suspicious of the non Bosch starter motor.

Any direction greatly received.

[cheshired5]

Based on the above, I'm still on the earth strap.
Pretty certain there's only one too as it's plenty meaty enough to cope so I can't see how or why another would be needed.

[harrympotter]

New 345amp cables off eBay, fraction of the price of main dealer.

[harrympotter]

I think I've made progress!!

An afternoon cleaning and degreasing, purchased a few wire brush heads for my fake Drimel.

New Red +ve and engine to chassis -ve cables installed.

Results:
+VE loss on crank 0.08V
-VE loss on crank 0.09V

Amp clamp 197.8 A

RPM @ crank 180 - 215 rpm.

Thanks cheshired5, cables made a dramatic difference, I feel I'm making progress for once.

I am content with my cranking figures to move to the next fault/problem/issue.

So whilst cranking I see puffs of unburnt, fuel smelling, white smoke emitted from the exhaust, just an observation.
When she does finally start, she will idle . But slowly advancing the throttle RPM will not rise above approx 2600rpm. I have a dash warning "Engine Service Required".

Engine / ECM fuses "have been out / in" for cranking testing.

I have various Vida fault logs. Please see attached.

Something tells me (a feeling) the injectors are not firing at the correct time.

Any ideas where to test now, what parameters to record?