Rica or BSR???

[pault5]

Originally Posted by MissDMeanor

Just out of interest Paul, what bhp figure did you give your insurance company? As far as I know, HLMtuning do not quote estimated bhp figures for custom mapping......

I quoted 340 bhp (flywheel).
The dyno which quotes whp gave 294bhp.

[Traduk]

Originally Posted by don kalmar union

Good day Paul,

You must be paying way over the top then!

Don.

www.kalmar-union.com

Don,

What was the purpose of your post other than a cheap shot at RICA due to the fact that Paul used RICA quoted BHP figures. Strange that a subsequent rolling road test gave a WHP much higher than numbers normally seen on that model and much higher than those normally suggested as attainable, by some people!. Looks as though the numbers he worked off originally were ball-park about right.

One day I guess I will be surprised and you may actually post something positive and not aimed as a side-swipe at another tuner.

BTW I am still waiting to hear what tuning capabilities you offer for my friend's V50 Diesel. Can you supply anything and if so what?.

Liam

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Traduk

Don,

What was the purpose of your post other than a cheap shot at RICA due to the fact that Paul used RICA quoted BHP figures. Strange that a subsequent rolling road test gave a WHP much higher than numbers normally seen on that model and much higher than those normally suggested as attainable, by some people!. Looks as though the numbers he worked off originally were ball-park about right.

would that have been on an independent dyno? im guessing not.

[Traduk]

Originally Posted by bobcat

would that have been on an independent dyno? im guessing not.

Bobcat,

Perhaps you would be so kind as to expand on the implications of having possibly used the same dyno as the supplier of the re-map.

You appear to be vaguely insinuating that the fact that it was possibly not an independent dyno had some bearing on the numbers produced. By my reading of your remark you appear to be obliquely trying to state that the results of the dyno are questionable and that has other implications?.

What are you trying to say?

Liam

[pault5]

No of course it wasn't an indipendent dyno!
Why would I bother doing that if thier is one where I got it mapped! I'm not made of money!
Anyway my original point was that declare your mods, if you have a rica, tme, bsr or any other chip and you declare, if asked by your insurer the bhp your car is making, declare it. Don't state 250bhp to your insurer if the tuning company state a higher bhp for thier chip.
It's not brain surgery.
Geeeez it's to nicer day to get all this grief.

[MissDMeanor]

Originally Posted by Traduk

Bobcat,

Perhaps you would be so kind as to expand on the implications of having possibly used the same dyno as the supplier of the re-map.

You appear to be vaguely insinuating that the fact that it was possibly not an independent dyno had some bearing on the numbers produced. By my reading of your remark you appear to be obliquely trying to state that the results of the dyno are questionable and that has other implications?.

What are you trying to say?

Liam

Hi Liam

Sorry to butt in here. From my understanding, Chip Tuning use a higher than average transmission loss percentage when calculating crank bhp. No-one can argue with whp and Paul's whp figure is certainly very impressive. Maybe the calculation for crank bhp is what Bobcat was referring to?

Anyway, back on topic. BSR & Rica are both good products & you must inform your insurance company of the modifications

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Traduk

Bobcat,

Perhaps you would be so kind as to expand on the implications of having possibly used the same dyno as the supplier of the re-map.

You appear to be vaguely insinuating that the fact that it was possibly not an independent dyno had some bearing on the numbers produced. By my reading of your remark you appear to be obliquely trying to state that the results of the dyno are questionable and that has other implications?.

What are you trying to say?

Liam

liam,

if you re-read my post you will see that it starts with a simple yes or no question. i then go on to state that im guessing the dyno used was that of the chip reseller - which has been confirmed by paul.

im not sure where you objection lies in regards to my previous post, would you care to explain further?

however, for those people wishing to know there cars real power figures i would suggest they allways go to an independent dyno as the figures will allways be more creditable due to the fact that the operator has no interest in the figures obtained.

think of it like this, your interviewing someone for a job, they state they have a degree (or other relevant qualifications) in which they took the tests on their own and marked the paper themselves only to get near 100%, would you question their results or have some doubts even though you are not accusing them of being dishonest?

[Traduk]

Originally Posted by MissDMeanor

Hi Liam

Sorry to butt in here. From my understanding, Chip Tuning use a higher than average transmission loss percentage when calculating crank bhp. No-one can argue with whp and Paul's whp figure is certainly very impressive. Maybe the calculation for crank bhp is what Bobcat was referring to?

Anyway, back on topic. BSR & Rica are both good products & you must inform your insurance company of the modifications

Julie,

Transmission losses from crank to wheels are infinitely variable not only from vehicle to vehicle but for the same vehicle under varying circumstances. It is my understanding that VT use WHP as a norm because of those infinite variables.

I have been associated with many forms of motor-racing over my lifetime and in the serious area of racing, engines are bench-tested for BHP and in some racing marques with BHP (+\- %) limitations they are factory sealed with the bench reading. Although insurance companies want the highest number (BHP) it doesn't always translate into performance for the end user. Example is an auto that loses a lot of power through the transmission against a manual.

The use by insurance companies of the head-line max BHP is a bit of a joke really. My V70 T5 auto is RICA'd but as it's an adaptive auto, I doubt if I have ever been in the max BHP area. It's the massive torque band from 2K revs which propels the vehicle like a bullet and in my opinion the re-profiling of the engine power characteristics is far more important and creates a far more potent car than head-line BHP.

I of course agree with you re:insurance companies. I spoke to many and a lot of specialist brokers over a 4 year period and they all wanted BHP increase numbers. My current insurance shows the + number for BHP as the first item in the list of mods. I am surprised that you have never been asked because I have never not been asked :-)

Liam

[Traduk]

Originally Posted by bobcat

liam,

if you re-read my post you will see that it starts with a simple yes or no question. i then go on to state that im guessing the dyno used was that of the chip reseller - which has been confirmed by paul.

im not sure where you objection lies in regards to my previous post, would you care to explain further?

however, for those people wishing to know there cars real power figures i would suggest they allways go to an independent dyno as the figures will allways be more creditable due to the fact that the operator has no interest in the figures obtained.

think of it like this, your interviewing someone for a job, they state they have a degree (or other relevant qualifications) in which they took the tests on their own and marked the paper themselves only to get near 100%, would you question their results or have some doubts even though you are not accusing them of being dishonest?

Bobcat,

Sure you asked a question and then filled in your own answer knowing with a high percentage probability that you were going to be correct.

In your third and fourth paragraphs you answer my objections with first the suggestion that an independent dyno be used because the operator has no interest in the result (insinuation there is that VT does).

In the final paragraph you elaborate on self marking and the insinuation there is that VT has an interest in marking up their own results.

Although you have not made a direct accusation you may just have well have done because your intent is clear.

I believe they have an open day coming up for the rolling road and hopefully there will be a plethora of charts which again hopefully may include other tuners. The results should be interesting.

Liam

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Traduk

Bobcat,

Sure you asked a question and then filled in your own answer knowing with a high percentage probability that you were going to be correct.

In your third and fourth paragraphs you answer my objections with first the suggestion that an independent dyno be used because the operator has no interest in the result (insinuation there is that VT does).

In the final paragraph you elaborate on self marking and the insinuation there is that VT has an interest in marking up their own results.

Although you have not made a direct accusation you may just have well have done because your intent is clear.

I believe they have an open day coming up for the rolling road and hopefully there will be a plethora of charts which again hopefully may include other tuners. The results should be interesting.

Liam

I asked the question to gain clarification thats all, i also added my belief - cant really see your problem with that.

I suggested people use independents, as the results obtained will be more creditable down to the fact the dyno operator has no interest in the results, there is no incinuation in my post (maybe you should re-read it), having independent inquiries\test\reports etc is totally common place in todays world and is often carries more weight - in no way does the request for and indepent report etc incinuate dishonesty or the potential to mislead.

it nice that the company you refer to are having another rolling road day, however in my view and im sure others the results will hold very little credibility due to them coming from a non independent source. It would be benificial more so if those repeat people attending the above dyno spent their money obtaining a plot from another dyno to compare and provide us with some more evidence to gain a better understanding of typical modded t5's. - do you agree liam?

if you re-read the last few posts liam, you will see that it is you thats making accusations and incinuations against me, my comments in all my above posts are not aimed at a particular company and the suggestions i have made can be applied in many applications.