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The infamous DPF delete!

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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 10:27   #11
FunkyMelon
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You're coming across like a massive bell to be honest.

DPF removals are banned for a reason - You won't find anyone who will remap your car without one.

Just get it remapped with the DPF in place, or ditch the dirty diesel and buy a faster car.
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 11:07   #12
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Originally Posted by D6Stevie View Post
Had I wished or required a pointless rant about legalities... I'd of asked the next time cops lift me. 🙄
And fear not... for no car of mine shall ever require you to MOT them. Zhowever it is great to read your self righteous and condescending views upon those 'lesser persons' than yourself.
Hehe, next time also ask about "traction control mod" and see what happens
As I couldnt care less if dpf removal is legal or not (sorry to all righteous ones), especially if its not my car or problem - let me answer with what I know (*limited knowledge of diesels so based on my talks with diesel owners):
- you can physically remove DPF but car needs some software tweak to behave properly, otherwise it will trigger all weird errors and odd reporting from sensors that may cause car to go into limp mode/not work at all etc etc. All of dpf removal applications I heard of were made in garages that also modify the map so I am not sure its something you can just cut off with band saw in your own garage. Not sure how cars can pass MOT/NCT with this out but I know a lot of them do so its either not spotted or not checked or something else that I cant understand. Fact is, flooring a diesel with removed DPF is an experience similar to cold starting a russian tractor as cloud of smoke is insane so just keep that in mind, you wont be unnoticed. Just this sunday I had a chance to meet mapped D5 with aftermarket full custom exhaust and removed DPF. POwer delivery and experience was insane (240HP on FWD diesel) but when he floored it on motorway, cloud of smoke remained for about 1mile away so yes, not exactly "sleeper" mod.
So its all up to you, I would perosnally advise you NOT to do it and map it with DPF in place to avoid any issues and not looking like a *** when accelerating, but technically speaking, legality aside, it IS possible, but accompanied with proper software mod.
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 11:17   #13
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not for the miles I do.
I don't really understand the logic. If it's only about performance for the dpf delete it's one thing. If as you say you are concerned with running costs, this makes no sense.

If the car is worth next to nothing, then why bother, get something else. If the car has some value, why make its resale value probably next to nothing by spending money on the delete?

Additionally, how much will you spend on the delete and remap... Let's say £500 minimally if done properly, and again best case reducing value of car by the cost of reversal £500. At saving 10p a mile, over another deisel or even petrol, you will be doing 10,000 miles before you break even on expected value, plus potential additonal costs and hassle at MOT time, and if you get caught, then the fine involved and knock on effect on insurance costs (not sure about this one). I know my actual figures are guess work, but if you do this calculation for yourself you will probably only be saving a couple hundred quid a year at best and driving around a very polluting car.

I'm not writing this to judge or condescend, just pointing out that all in, it probably wont give you the financial benefit you think it will. Oh and if the car starts acting up, dont forget the cost of your own labour and hassle getting a garage to fix a car that's had the dpf and software messed with.
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 11:23   #14
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In my experience of diesel tuning, the black smoke on acceleration is caused by over-fuelling and not the DPF being removed.

By way of an example, many years ago I had my 300Tdi Defeder 'tuned' by what was thought to be a reputable company. Hybrid turbo, intercooler, etc.

It smoked heavily on acceleration and was generally rather unsociable in this respect.

I had another company look at this and they immediately diagnosed the problem with chronic over-fuelling. This had a detrimental effect on EGT's (exhaust gas temperature - so vital when tuning a diesel) and rectified things massively with an sizeable improvement in emissions (no black smoke and better power delivery). An EGT gauge was fitted both to tune and to monitor and things are still dandy 6 years later.

I digress by way of illustration. However, my point remains about the over-fuelling and what could be suggested as a rather poor remap.

I've no beef with the DPF delete legalities, but am suggesting that merely removing the DFP shouldn't result in clouds of black smoke on acceleration.

Happy to be proven wrong.
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 13:06   #15
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Originally Posted by Bellini View Post
In my experience of diesel tuning, the black smoke on acceleration is caused by over-fuelling and not the DPF being removed.

By way of an example, many years ago I had my 300Tdi Defeder 'tuned' by what was thought to be a reputable company. Hybrid turbo, intercooler, etc.

It smoked heavily on acceleration and was generally rather unsociable in this respect.

I had another company look at this and they immediately diagnosed the problem with chronic over-fuelling. This had a detrimental effect on EGT's (exhaust gas temperature - so vital when tuning a diesel) and rectified things massively with an sizeable improvement in emissions (no black smoke and better power delivery). An EGT gauge was fitted both to tune and to monitor and things are still dandy 6 years later.

I digress by way of illustration. However, my point remains about the over-fuelling and what could be suggested as a rather poor remap.

I've no beef with the DPF delete legalities, but am suggesting that merely removing the DFP shouldn't result in clouds of black smoke on acceleration.

Happy to be proven wrong.
did this vehicle you use as an example have a dpf? If not then it doesn't prove you wrong, but it also adds nothing to prove you right.

i.e. Deisel without dpf + over fuel = smoke
deisel with dpf delete = smoke
deisel with dpf delete + over fuel = smoke

now the important ones
deisel with dpf NO over fuel = NO smoke

deisel with dpf + over fuel = NO smoke. probably just a rapidly blocked dpf and limp mode....

If you have a functioning Dust particle filter the dust particles which cause the black smoke from partially burnt fuel won't escape, over fueling or not....
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 13:46   #16
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I accept my illustration probably wasn't the best, but the engine and vehicle in question is 25 years old with over 160,000 miles on the clock. I also own another diesel vehicle with a 5-cylinder OM602 Mercedes engine (non-DPF) that is 28 years-old and has done just over 60,000 miles since new. That runs at a high load most of the time and that also does not smoke.

However, assuming I've understood you correctly, I do not understand how a non-DPF'd diesel can run smoke-free and yet a modern DPF-removed diesel can run and smoke. A modern diesel engine with a better combustion technology ought to be cleaner without a DPF, surely? The DPF addition, to my mind, should make it even cleaner on emissions.

Again, I stand to be corrected.

I'll repeat that I have no beef with the legalities of DPF's and am not condoning their removal.
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Last edited by Bellini; Dec 4th, 2019 at 14:05.
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 14:30   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellini View Post
I accept my illustration probably wasn't the best, but the engine and vehicle in question is 25 years old with over 160,000 miles on the clock. I also own another diesel vehicle with a 5-cylinder OM602 Mercedes engine (non-DPF) that is 28 years-old and has done just over 60,000 miles since new. That runs at a high load most of the time and that also does not smoke.

However, assuming I've understood you correctly, I do not understand how a non-DPF'd diesel can run smoke-free and yet a modern DPF-removed diesel can run and smoke. A modern diesel engine with a better combustion technology ought to be cleaner without a DPF, surely? The DPF addition, to my mind, should make it even cleaner on emissions.

Again, I stand to be corrected.

I'll repeat that I have no beef with the legalities of DPF's and am not condoning their removal.
the smoke is a visual indicator the exhaust gases are toxic. but you will get toxic **** in it before it becomes so bad it's visible. My point is, that un burnt particulates that are indicative of partially burnt fuel, will be stopped by the dpf
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 14:43   #18
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Originally Posted by lockstock View Post
the smoke is a visual indicator the exhaust gases are toxic. but you will get toxic **** in it before it becomes so bad it's visible. My point is, that un burnt particulates that are indicative of partially burnt fuel, will be stopped by the dpf
i don't know the ins and outs but forced compression engines will always run richer and burn less clean
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Old Dec 4th, 2019, 18:26   #19
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I don't know anything of the ins and outs of diesels and I'm not getting into the legal/illegal argument,but what are you wanting/hoping to achieve by removing/deleting the dpf+remap that can't be achieved by remapping with the dpf in place?
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Old Dec 5th, 2019, 11:43   #20
FunkyMelon
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Originally Posted by Dippydog View Post
I don't know anything of the ins and outs of diesels and I'm not getting into the legal/illegal argument,but what are you wanting/hoping to achieve by removing/deleting the dpf+remap that can't be achieved by remapping with the dpf in place?
DPF's are restrictive, that's why most got them removed back in the day prior to remapping.

Remapping a diesel with a DPF is a bit like remapping a petrol without a turbo, minimal gains...

The amount of soot coming out the back of a DPF deleted diesel is ridiculous though. I had a Fabia VRS that floored it the other day in front of me, shot off in a large plume of black smoke looking like a right boob!
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