car computer- feasibility, functions

[ThomasG]

I almost hijacked another thread, where one of our fresh members was enquiring about use of raspberry pi as car computer.

well.. it got me thinking (its a periodic thing) about such a devive and what would i expect from it.

and what would i expect?

would i want to have access to facebook? easily openable apps that may not be driver-friendly by themselves?

i think many have seen these Android car apps, theres a full plethora of them out there.
true they look nice
true they have big, easily accesible "buttons"

but what use is such a gizmo if the only thing i can do with it is launch, for example, internet radio app, and that will have its own interface that one has to LOOK AT WHILST DRIVING to choose station!

No.

I`m not having THAT.

heres what i want, and the list isnt exhaustive

i want control from some kind of physical dial or joystick placed near gear lever.
something like this:


or something form CCTV systems, that already is built on USB, trouble is it`s BIG:





i want capability of quickly switching the screen between audio/satnav/OBD functions.
by extension- it would be good to have HUD for satnav, similar to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSjwd637mog

and being able to switch that to OBD readout, like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIQPVxMbSJU

AND
have centre console screen, a touchscreen, semi-separately
semi separately as being able to display same thing as on HUD/windscreen OR something else. like AUDIO controls

this would allow me to, for example, switch centre screen to satnav, enter coordinates, start navigation (all by touchscren) and then switch that onto windscreen

so I`m looking at a system with ONE central processing unit, but TWO displays, out of which one is a touchscreen

Android won`t do it. nowhere near
Windows? Naah..

there is operating system that has native use of virtual desktops AND multi-monitor outputs

and with that its only matter of programming lets say 6... no, make it 7 (last one special) physical buttons sitting next to that joystick by armrest
first 3 buttons to switch the HUD display: AV OR SatNav OR OBD (torque)
another 3 buttons to do the same, but for centre console screen
7th, maybe even hidden button- i`ll elaborate later

so that would cover satnav and obd..
what about audio or even video?

trouble that all these android car apps have is that they can launch apps, but not interact with these apps.
so after one manages to start that internet radio for example, and wants to switch to lets say mp3 from SD card..
open the internet radio app
stop playback
close internet radio app
open music player
choose playlist or file.

all that time EYES OFF THE ROAD, checking what is it precisely that ones finger is pressing on the screen

thus that joystick idea

or even better- not joystick at all, but a dial. simple ring that one can turn right or left to highlight option on the screen and press down to choose that option

and yet one more button next to it (8th button, ill come back to 7th yet later)

if KODI could be simplified a bit more, that would be my primary choice for interface
there is something built already (i`m talking program/software here)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXmzAjjEJUo

but..

does it support 2 screens and 3(+1) virtual desktops?

after all, first desktop would have to run media interface (lets say that Xbian)
second desktop would need to run SatNav (android emulator with goole maps+Velociraptor+tomtom speed cameras+camsam plus)
third desktop would be running Torque app (either android emulator again or native)

So it may be that i wont be using Xbian at all, but a more basic version of Linux, with android emulator and media center on top of it

and heres the 7th button, the hidden one

from time to time system will need maintenance.
updates, configuration etc

that would be 4th virtual desktop activated by that 7th button

so thats layout of "out" functions

but such a computer will need to communicate with car as well

after all it needs to know when to turn the screen on and when off
when to change backlight from "daylight" settnig to "night mode"

it will need some interface with the car
2 interfaces with car
one for OBD readouts for use by Torque
second for direct use by computer:

ignition state (on/off)
engine running state (on/off)
reverse gear (on/off)
maybe its own light sensor (so it can decide when to activate night mode by itself)

and it would need to be able to control a thing or two in the car too.
i`ll get to what and why could be controlled later, for now i`ll just assume that 4 relays controlled by that computer would be possibly sufficient

it will need GPS receiver
it will need Wifi
it MAY (my preference is not, but i`ll make allowance) need its own SIM card and 4G/5G radio

so by now it would need:

central unit (and quite powerfull unit it will need to be)
5-7 inch screen to work as a HUD display
5-7 inch touch screen for centre
joystick/dial to control
USB GPS antenna
ELM USB (not bluetooth) OBD interface
USB interface to read car states/operate relays

and one more, but preferably 2, empty USB ports
one to have ability to plug in a flash drive with music/movies/whatnot
another one to periodically plug in a computer keyboard anr/or mouse- these will make maintenance much, much easier

speaking of maintenance.. why to do it from within the car at all?

why not to park possibly close to home, tell computer to connect to home WiFi and log-in from home computer by remote access?

now.. one doesnt want to live car running in front of the house in order to run updates from within the house..

so how about turning the car off.. but just before that pressing a hidden switch that would tell the computer to:
connect to home wifi
keep itself alive after car is turned off instead of going to "sleep mode"
turn off the screens to avoid drawing attention of bypassers

then turn the engine off
lock the car
go home
do maintenance
send (over wifi) command to car computer to disconnect, turn off all external comms (wifi, bluetooth, GPS), and go to sleep mode.

one of these relays could do that.
provide a switched live to the computer , switchable by computer itself- thislive would mean simply "maintenance mode"

extensions to this setup.. endless possibilities

FM radio module
interaction with car burglar alarm (lets say fingerprint reader- after driver starts the engine, theres 10 seconds delay to provide fingerprnt, otherwise alarm goes off)
reversing camera
dashboard camera with gps logging
multiple dasboard camera with "burst" mode activated by burglar alarm- photos taken 1 per second emailed directly to your inbox. inside and outside of car..


And all that could, technically, be fitted to ANY car.
maybe fitting this to TESLA or any other that already has its own touchscreen wouldnt make too much sene, but even that, i believe, would be possible

thoughts, anyone?

I wont lie here- i will prize the most these replies that contain some information about modules required, including software.

so- what good screens are out there, where to get such a dial+buttons pluggable by USB, what media center software..


And i will admit that this is not something that will be done overnight.
months, maybe years..

maybe never if life throws me into some trouble..

But i can bet that NO ONE is offering such a thing.

all seem to go the easy route of "lets give facebook to cars, and lets make it as easy for ourselves as possible without bothering with actual usability"

[ThomasG]

one module found

maybe not the best, or maybe the best..

i dont know.

but these things do exist

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9669


this looks nice, but i think i might have to write (or find someone to do it) the driver for it myself...

https://www.altoedge.com/design/mult...htle_pro2.html

[GMcL]

There seems to be a lot of redundancy in your original post.

You want to control apps you can with your voice. You don't need to look at anything. I don't know about Apple CarPlay though I have used Android Auto you say "OK Google" or whatever phrase you have programmed then "play <radio station>" and as if by magic your chosen radio app plays the station. No touchy, feelly anything required. Similarly with WhatsApp you say "OK Google WhatsApp <name>" then you dictate your message and it sends it. No buttons to press or screens to touch.

The whole point of Android Auto and I would expect Apple CarPlay is there is no eyes off the road.

I'm not sure about the finger print read thing, if someone wants to steal a specific car they will have read up about how it works and will cut your finger off if they have to if they really, really want the car. They will also have observed you and know which finger to go for.

WiFi connectivity is a bit old hat especially with 5G. When that comes along everything will be connected 24/7 no need for wireless hotspots.

[ThomasG]

Good point with that voice recognition

Redundancy.. yes.

Its a setup "from ground up" which (for me at least) means - "use 100% confirmed and reliable ways first"

I cannot treat voice recognition as reliable as itself it needs connection to internet (yourvoice is NOT regocnized by your mobile phone- it is being sent away for interpretation)

thus- no internet (poor reception, for example) and it fails

"from ground up" would mean also that system can accept such (for lack of better word) innovations, but WILL NOT RELY on these.

Thus- manual control+ if needed touch screen, and ability to extend by voice commands

also- i dont think voice command will let me do anything that google (if i was to stick to android) didnt think about

would it let me change the wiev of camsam from full screen to widget mode? or report a mobile camera?

[GMcL]

It's good to think about these things but not over think them.
We are in the middle of a massive shake up in terms of tech and even the cars themselves and how they interact within the environment.
Can you imagine a world without the internet ? Give it another couple of years and 'the internet' will not exist, it will just be there like sewers, water/gas/electric mains, telephone lines. Yes it will have to be maintained but it will be nothing of special note, just another utility.

Mirroring will allow you to do things Apple and Alphabet have not yet thought about. Write your own app and off you go. If it can be monitized the big boys won't be far away, they always follow the money.

[ThomasG]

And thats the biggest challenge I`m facing:

creating software..

for hardware ive got few choices already (and frankly, a knob with only 3 buttons will do, as long as knob itself can be pressed down as that 4th button, otherwise knob+ 4 buttons)

I/O for ignition etc and 4 relays found

displays.. lots online

may take a day or two to source proper central unit

but right now im playing with Android emulators.

Anbox promised a lot but failed.

it was supposed to run apps pretty much natively with the system, but if i have to start Anbox manager first and THEN the app itself, and only one app at a time (maybe just a bug in my installation, i`ll check on another laptop later)
And it crashes. whole thing goes down when i try to close the app only.

There is few "big" emulators out there.
if i can bond one of these to one of virtual desktops, and run few apps at once- Bobs my uncle

software for media/knob, including USB driver for knob- that may be a big issue

will see..

no rush

[andy_d]

its a CAR
playing with "app for that" and crap like it with "car computers" means you are NOT paying full attention when driving, now there is a Thing ,, its called Driving without due care and attention, comes with Points and a fine.

dont be Yet another dick on the road ,

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by andy_d

its a CAR
playing with "app for that" and crap like it with "car computers" means you are NOT paying full attention when driving, now there is a Thing ,, its called Driving without due care and attention, comes with Points and a fine.

dont be Yet another dick on the road ,

I really don`t know what to say...

So ¬ill just say that you are wrong in judgement of my person.

[paddy74]

Very interesting thread, subscribed

@andy_d
That's nonsense. If this system would be good (not even perfect), then it would bring back more attention on the street. Ideally a system like this runs without any disturbance of the driver, yet helps him to concentrate better. It is exactly, what all car manufacturers try to do - more technical assitance to help drive better. Or do you think, looking at an old school radio and change the volume doesn't take your view from the street? With voice recognition I just say "Car, turn down the volume". All eyes on the street...

@ThomasG
I would personally go with a raspberry, better with more than one Pi. You could use a non-internet based voice recognition like Raspy. It works great, have tried it, but not in a car.

Combine this with another Pi for the really needed software/apps. I'm with you, I would only do it with linux, it doen's make sense otherwise.

But, and now it gets creepy, I would think a little out of the box and try other already maintained solutions, that yre not build for a car... like HomeAssistant. How is that you ask? Yet for HA it is totally unnecessary, to know what it is controlling. It gets values from sensors and acts according to your previous laid down rules.

There are already three or four voice recognition softwares out there, that work flawlessly with HA (including Rasspy). Put that together and you can make simple rules like "if torque hits value XY make the display go red".

It is all there, it just needs to be combined for this use case...

Let me know what you think, I can go deeper, if it is interesting...

[ThomasG]

Just had a quick look at that HA..

I.. can`t think of a way of utilising it just yet..

Your idea of using something that wasnt built specifically for car job is silmply put- brilliant.

But i`m not sure is HA the answer. Mind - i know very very little about it, merely seeing the demo on their website, so i leave any serious opinion for later.

yet.. you got me intrigued
---------------------------------------------------------------
raspberry...

again- a lot to learn.

one of things to sort out will be computing power consumption.

that is - a choice of apps/system/emulator actually used (i know for example that KODI is especially resource-heavy, shall i go that route. Add Android emulator (VirtualBox+ AndroidX86 - testing now) and it may need quite a CPU and memory..)

Not mentioning some surplus of resources to be used as needed

So i would need to find out how does exactly Raspberry manage running several apps, or in this instance- maybe even several OSes and a number of apps at once...

It will be tough choice, that central unit

one thing i`m pretty sure about is that it will need ability to go to sleep

full boot of system(s) each time car is started?

Not possible. way too long.