Your Thoughts Welcome ..... Engine Revs Playing-up

[bob12]

Thanks Dave.

I now see that both Lucas and Intermotor also 'do' replacement FPR's (Volvo 3517064 oem Bosch 0280 160 294 with equivalent 3 Bar/43.5 psi, Lucas FDB 1018, Intermotor 16519) at somewhere in the region of £35 on eBay.

Much better that the silly prices in the £100's quoted by some suppliers. I am now tending towards new!

Bob

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by bob12

Thanks Dave.

I now see that both Lucas and Intermotor also 'do' replacement FPR's (Volvo 3517064 oem Bosch 0280 160 294 with equivalent 3 Bar/43.5 psi, Lucas FDB 1018, Intermotor 16519) at somewhere in the region of £35 on eBay.

Much better that the silly prices in the £100's quoted by some suppliers. I am now tending towards new!

Bob

I'd rather put my faith in the Intermotor one Bob - when Lucas went belly-up in 1996, the parts division was bought for the name and if i'm being honest, most of the parts made under the Lucas name now are questionable at best. Some are good but finding those is a bit of a lottery.
In ~38 years of (legally) driving, i've often used Intermotor and never had a problem, not even with the alleged "Volvo ECU only works with Bosch CTS" myth.
I found the real reason for this myth - the pins in the Bosch CTS are marginally longer than all others and during the 1980s, Volvo used wire insulation made from soya beans. When this gets older, it goes hard and shrinks along the length of the wire. This causes two things to happen, one the wire to break through being stretched or the wire being pulled so the pins in the plug no longer make contact (or proper contact) with the CTS pins.
Sometimes both things happen.

I proved this with my 760 during last winter when on extra cold days, it would give failed CTS symptoms but would "fix itself" once the engine warmed itself and surroundings to a moe normal temperture.

Volvo weren't the only ones to use soya bean insulation :

http://badmercedes.com/

Many Mercs of the late 80s and 90s have failing underbonnet looms - this is why! Last bonnet loom i did was on a 1988 300E, just a few months after repairing the rear loom due to blowing the courtesy light fuse when the boot was opened! The fault was very well hidden, so much so i had to remove all the interior to get to the culprit wire!

[griston64]

Hi Dave

I thought Volvo only used biodegradable wiring up to 1987 ?

Nearly all the issues with non Bosch CTS sensors are on 940's so these wouldn't be affected by that wiring issue. I also thought Soybean insulation didn't start getting used on cars until after 2000

I replaced my CTS today funnily enough and I seem to remember both Luke and another forum member having bad issues with cheapo sensors. They were both 97/98 940's as well

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by griston64

Hi Dave

I thought Volvo only used biodegradable wiring up to 1987 ?

Nearly all the issues with non Bosch CTS sensors are on 940's so these wouldn't be affected by that wiring issue. I also thought Soybean insulation didn't start getting used on cars until after 2000

I replaced my CTS today funnily enough and I seem to remember both Luke and another forum member having bad issues with cheapo sensors. They were both 97/98 940's as well

Check the cause and effect as outlined in my post above Mark - Volvo continued using the strange insulation for a lot longer than they should have done! It was a bad idea to start with having biodegradable insulation on the electrical system

The problem with the cheaper sensors is the pins are shorter than Bosch ones, when the wiring problems occur it will ultimately do it on a Bosch sensor too, as i proved last winter.

There are so many myths surrounding soya insulation as to when it started etc you have to read between the lines - if there's a problem and an allegation of biodegradable/soya insulation, even if outside the "official" timeline, there is only one conclusion that can be drawn from the evidence available, someone is telling porkies about when that sort of insulation was used.

Similar story on the lead-free solder - i remember going to work one monday morning and being told we were having all new extractor fans and new, lead-free solder - that was 1988. We were catching up at that point as many other parts of the world had already moved onto it. Within a few years, dry and broken joints started increasing due to the lead-free solder but certain people will only admit to it coming in during the 90s and then not as an EU Directive (which is why it was brought in during 1988) but thankfully tin/lead multicore solder is still available to the private buyer so repairs can be made.

[360beast]

I had a cold start misfire that would last for a minute then go away. I tested everything and all tested fine including the ECT so I thought what does the ECU look at when cold and my first thought was ECT so replaced it with an intermotor one. It idled at 300rpm, lambda light came on and it belched black smoke out from unburned fuel. I then pulled the genuine Bosch 24 year old at the time sensor from my spare engine and fitted that, it ran perfectly fine and has done since.

I would rather spend £45 from Volvo for the genuine sensor than £10 for a cheap one that IME didn't even work out of the box, at least the Bosch one should last 20+ years.

If there was a wiring issue it would have shown up on the replacement Bosch sensor too. I now have a pair of genuine Bosch sensors that I got for £20 each from America but I was buying other bits too and they didn't push the postage up at all so I got two for less than the price of one from Volvo. When this now 25 year old sensor goes bad I've got the replacement ready.

It really is a quick and easy job, I use a cranked 19mm spanner to slacken it off then do a few small turns before it is finger loose and whip it out, drain the coolant out of the rad first if you want to be clean, I just put my finger over the hole and whipped the new one in and lost barely any coolant. Mark uses a ratchet with the socket on a UJ and extension bar, either works and both are very quick ways of doing it.

Oh and just to add when doing other things before I have left the ECT accidentally unplugged and started the car, it struggled to start but it ran better with it unplugged than connected to the intermotor one so I doubt the pins were too short.

Edit: Backman's garage on YouTube also used an aftermarket sensor on his 300hp build and had running issues which he solved by refitting the original sensor.

I've fitted a 1988 531 head to my 1997 940 so the sensor did well to last 34 years.

[bob12]

Thanks one and all for your comments.

I recently replaced the CTS (for dash temp gauge) a month ago with a Bosch one. The ECT was replaced a few years ago in an endeavour to clear a hot start problems with a new Bosch sensor but that made absolutely no difference. We are taking here about maybe the first UK non-turbo 745 to be fitted with LH2.4 and the dreaded cold start valve who's first Jetronic ECU was rapidly upgraded even before the cold start valve was superceeded by up-graded ECU electronics.

Anyway, in view of the clear failure of the FPR and, always in hope, with replacement flexi fuel pipe to hand (which will be needed), I have now ordered from Arnold Clark, Glasgow (via eBay) a replacement Intermotor FPR for a tad under £35 (I was going to call the local motor factor for a price but didn't get round to it!). The one from Rockauto mentioned by Dave in a post ^^^ came in via Fedex delivery with vat paid at £10 more.

Bob

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by bob12

Thanks one and all for your comments.

I recently replaced the CTS (for dash temp gauge) a month ago with a Bosch one. The ECT was replaced a few years ago in an endeavour to clear a hot start problems with a new Bosch sensor but that made absolutely no difference. We are taking here about maybe the first UK non-turbo 745 to be fitted with LH2.4 and the dreaded cold start valve who's first Jetronic ECU was rapidly upgraded even before the cold start valve was superceeded by up-graded ECU electronics.

Anyway, in view of the clear failure of the FPR and, always in hope, with replacement flexi fuel pipe to hand (which will be needed), I have now ordered from Arnold Clark, Glasgow (via eBay) a replacement Intermotor FPR for a tad under £35 (I was going to call the local motor factor for a price but didn't get round to it!). The one from Rockauto mentioned by Dave in a post ^^^ came in via Fedex delivery with vat paid at £10 more.

Bob

I've used Arnold Clark on ebay before Bob - all good.

I have an intermittent fault on my Honda and i'd narrowed it down to the PCV valve, checking the HBoF it appears the "test" is to pinch the hose to it with the engine idling and it should be heard to snap shut.
Tried and discovered i couldn't pinch the hose as it's collapsed internally!

I have a new PCV sat here, waiting to go in, just need the hose now!

Hopefully our respective efforts with vac hoses and what they're attached to improves matters for both of us!

[bob12]

Just to add to Dave's comment. Yes, Arnold Clark seem to be 'on the ball'. FPR wasn't listed for Volvo but clearly from info it was suitable. Clark replied to my question by return confirming direct relacement. Once ordered last evening very good response times for despatch via UPS tracked. Hopefully UPS will find my house as no numbers!!

Bob

[bob12]

Just a quick update .... the new FPR arrived today via UPS.

Amusingly ...... it was sent direct from SMP Europe (Intermotor and other brand names) in the UK from their base in Nottingham not from A Clark in Glasgow. Clarks's webpage does indicate this could happen. The bubble wrap envelope shows signs of a tumultious journey but the contents seem OK!!

The package was sent by UPS to their big international distribution centre on the River Thames in Essex. Then it winged its way back to UPS Traford (half way between Birmingham and Nottingham) and then back down to their distribution centre in Reading before coming out to me today!! You couldn't make this up .... or maybe you could ....

I recently had a Royal Mail parcel that went from Birmingham to outside Newcastle and then to just outside Manchester before coming down to London and then down to my local distribution depot from where it was misdelived before finally arriving with me!!

Evri (Hermes) seem to be doing better these days taking a more direct route and not loosing or mis-delivering parcels!

Weather doesn't look to good for fitting the FPR over the next few days but maybe a window will open!

Bob

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by bob12

Just a quick update .... the new FPR arrived today via UPS.

Amusingly ...... it was sent direct from SMP Europe (Intermotor and other brand names) in the UK from their base in Nottingham not from A Clark in Glasgow. Clarks's webpage does indicate this could happen. The bubble wrap envelope shows signs of a tumultious journey but the contents seem OK!!

The package was sent by UPS to their big international distribution centre on the River Thames in Essex. Then it winged its way back to UPS Traford (half way between Birmingham and Nottingham) and then back down to their distribution centre in Reading before coming out to me today!! You couldn't make this up .... or maybe you could ....

I recently had a Royal Mail parcel that went from Birmingham to outside Newcastle and then to just outside Manchester before coming down to London and then down to my local distribution depot from where it was misdelived before finally arriving with me!!

Evri (Hermes) seem to be doing better these days taking a more direct route and not loosing or mis-delivering parcels!

Weather doesn't look to good for fitting the FPR over the next few days but maybe a window will open!

Bob

It's not unknown that sellers, especially bigger ones like Arnold Clark will sell items and then order them on the supplier to be delivered direct to the customer Bob. In fact, many ebay sellers operate solely on this principle or to be more exact, they order from the wholesaler for delivery to the customer (drop-shipping) and as long as the item is correct and undamaged, shouldn't really be a problem.

If you gather the necessary tools Bob, if you get a 10 minute window of dry weather you should be able to manage it - two bolts to remove (10mm head), a little silicone grease on the new "O" ring of the FPR, disconnect the vac hose and wiggle/pull the old one out (might need "encouragement" from a pair of screwdrivers, one each side to lever against the mounting ears) then push the new one into place, fit the bolts and tighten them evenly and it should pull in square.

That's the first 5 minutes, next is fire it up, check for leaks and how it idles when hot. Little tip, pull fuse #1 before starting and refit before firing up (or disconnect battery -ve) to clear the fault code memory.

Good luck and looking forward to a positive report!