164 to 164E

[Andrew164]

It will probably never happen but it has crossed my mind that 30hp at the wheels would be a very significant increase in power. How feasible would it be to convert my 164 to a 164E

[Triple-S]

Hello again Andrew. As you know I run both, but to be honest neither due their power output. The MX5 my son and I share is far better if performance is your thing, and my 240DL estate day-car is far better when work is required, so why bother?
Differences to consider: the complete fuel system including tank and lines, as the E has a flow and return system, a computer-controlled electrics system, different exhaust and manifolds and of course a higher spec engine (injection manifold, different camshaft etc).
Then there's getting parts - some for the injection car are practically extinct in the UK. Last year the air slide valve mixture thing on my E seized through disuse, and the injection specialist I use couldn't find one in the UK (so I robbed my spares-car, so no spare now). Look at the costs too - a replacement fuel pump - the one that is ridiculously mounted under a rear wheel arch - cost over £160 when I last looked, and that was on mainland Europe....
So my question - why bother? Admittedly a 164 with that old-fashioned 3-speed auto gearbox will always be a sluggish beast (mine is a manual + O/D so much better), but several have converted from auto to manual to be able to exploit all the car can give: have never heard of a 164 to 164E conversion though. Far better to swap cars! I know of a decent-looking one for sale if interested - PM me if you'd like to know more.

Paul

[Volvorama]

An easy and very effective upgrade would be to swap your Strombergs for SUs from a B20 144S. Did this on one and is was much faster even without changing the needles/jets.

[classicswede]

Swapping good working stro,bergs for su's is not going to make any differnce.

You can convert to tripple SU's or even tripple DCOE's if you really want to open the engine up power wise. There are some cam upgrades also available.

If you wanted to convert to fuel injection then rather than using the b30E system I would opt for a standalone system like megasquirt.

You could go super charger, turbo or even swap in the 3ltr 960 engine and gearbox

[Clan]

Originally Posted by classicswede

Swapping good working stro,bergs for su's is not going to make any differnce.

You can convert to tripple SU's or even tripple DCOE's if you really want to open the engine up power wise. There are some cam upgrades also available.

If you wanted to convert to fuel injection then rather than using the b30E system I would opt for a standalone system like megasquirt.

You could go super charger, turbo or even swap in the 3ltr 960 engine and gearbox

If it were mine i would go the 960 engine route , 30 bhp more than the 164E and a lot less weight ... still silky smooth and has VOLVO 24V on the top :-)

If the 164 E was the same state of tune as the B20E it would produce the same power as the 960 3 litre 6, B6304S
The B30E must have more mild camshaft than the B20E ..

[Volvorama]

Originally Posted by classicswede

Swapping good working stro,bergs for su's is not going to make any differnce.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. I've done about 20 Stromberg to SU conversions (mostly singles) and every time the car goes faster. Remember that Volvo went from twin SUs to Strombergs to meet emission control regs, but went back to SUs when the HiF became available.
If you do the conversion another big improvement is to remove those horrible second butterflies in the manifold.

[capt jack]

Something at the back of my mind is telling me that the B20E and B30E engines had a different cylinder head to that of the equivalent B20 and B30 carb'd engines?

I had an 1800ES with the B20E engine and although I did eventually get to grips with the Bosch D-Jet system, parts availability was not good.

cheers

Jack

[Clan]

Originally Posted by capt jack

Something at the back of my mind is telling me that the B20E and B30E engines had a different cylinder head to that of the equivalent B20 and B30 carb'd engines?

I had an 1800ES with the B20E engine and although I did eventually get to grips with the Bosch D-Jet system, parts availability was not good.

cheers

Jack

yes the injection heads had a place for the injector and holder on the flat area over the inlet ports and were less high increasing the compression ratio to 10:1, however the combustion chambers of the B20E and B30E heads were the same so should produce the relatively scaled up power ( + 50% ) but didn't.

[john h]

I agree with Dai, if swapping to fuel injection, it would make sense to use a modern mappable system like megasquirt. Set up carefully on a rolling road, that would make the B30 MUCH more efficient in terms of power and economy.

The B20E cam (C-profile if I recall correctly) gives 130bhp DIN in the 2 litre with D-jet. As Clan says, the same cam profile in the 3 litre version should give 1.5 times the B20E power, i.e. 195bhp which is respectable power output and would make a manual 164 fairly fast.

A B20E profile cam for the B30 is available from KG Trimning in Sweden. I have one to go in my 164.

Tripple weber dcoe carbs and an extarctor manifold gave 200bhp on the Scandix project car, I think they changed the camshaft but not 100% sure.

A 200bhp 164 on modern, mapped fuel injection would use a lot less fuel than tripple webers.

I will be using megasquirt, C-cam and a supercharger on my project. Aiming for a fairly low-boost set-up to give good torque and 250-260bhp.

John

[Clan]

Originally Posted by john h

I agree with Dai, if swapping to fuel injection, it would make sense to use a modern mappable system like megasquirt. Set up carefully on a rolling road, that would make the B30 MUCH more efficient in terms of power and economy.

The B20E cam (C-profile if I recall correctly) gives 130bhp DIN in the 2 litre with D-jet. As Clan says, the same cam profile in the 3 litre version should give 1.5 times the B20E power, i.e. 195bhp which is respectable power output and would make a manual 164 fairly fast.

A B20E profile cam for the B30 is available from KG Trimning in Sweden. I have one to go in my 164.

Tripple weber dcoe carbs and an extarctor manifold gave 200bhp on the Scandix project car, I think they changed the camshaft but not 100% sure.

A 200bhp 164 on modern, mapped fuel injection would use a lot less fuel than tripple webers.

I will be using megasquirt, C-cam and a supercharger on my project. Aiming for a fairly low-boost set-up to give good torque and 250-260bhp.

John

should be good , the 164E was a fast car to start with, I drove plenty when they were new . Only one problem the huge weight of the engine . Now if you were to start with the 3 litre 960 engine ........ :-)