Xc90 > **garage dispute** > **d5 cylinder head failure**

[sspaul121]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

Did you request that they continue to investigate the engine issue, after their initial report during the service & MOT?:

(" Car still goes into limp on acceleration. Recheck for air leaks. Non found.
Suspect problem with rockers. Needs injectors removed and rocker box off to check and confirm. Engine system message on dash.")

Having stripped the engine and found (allegedly) an issue with the head, how did you get to the point where they put a now know (allegedly) failed unit back together for a "road test"?

The Order was a sfollows:

1. Fixed initial issues/Service/MOT. They outlined the description, "
(" Car still goes into limp on acceleration. Recheck for air leaks. Non found.
Suspect problem with rockers. Needs injectors removed and rocker box off to check and confirm. Engine system message on dash.")" on the Invoice for the initial set of agreed works.

2. Major issue arose during undertaking 1 above.
This is when they asked me to test drive and I advised that it did not drive normally/like when first dropped it of/limp mode etc etc.

3. They then stripped it back and concluded the cylinder head failure.

4. Then put it back together.

5. Been in dispute ever since.

[sspaul121]

Originally Posted by reggit

I would ask them to show you the major failure, if the engine is apart they should be able to do this. Make sure you inspect it with someone who understands engines if you go down this route.

They have put the car back together until we reach some form of agreement.

[Moose Test]

Thanks for the clarification.

I concur with Tannaton. Retrieve the vehicle and use another garage to diagnose and resolve the issue.

It's likely that nothing useful can be achieved by continuing to pursue it with the the current garage. Even if they are correct, your trust in the customer relationship has broken down. In their defense, there's nothing concrete yet to show that your vehicle didn't have an incipient fault which fully developed during the time they held it for other work. They will, rightly, point out in any legal defense that you'd reported an engine problem to them at the time you delivered it to them. If that had not been the case (ie. running perfectly but returned broken), the situation would be very much more clear cut in your favour.

Until an independent third party has correctly diagnosed and resolved the issue, your remedy options aren't clear. If you can find someone suitably qualified to make the determination (perhaps a mechanic from one of the local specialists you spoke to?) then Reggit's advice might be a way to go, IF you're still happy for the original garage to make the repair if it's diagnosis is confirmed.

[V8XCV]

The symptoms you have described are not consistent with a failed head gasket. I have never heard of a head failure in a D5 engine (I've owned two D5, and there are another 3x D5 in the family and never heard of any head gasket issues).

Black smoke is a result of incorrect mixture (to much fuel) which is usually the result of an air leak in the intake system. I.e. a burst intercooler, air hose, leaking seals in the turbo hoses (resonator box). It could also be a failure of the EGR (if the EGR fails to open it can cause black smoke as the engine is expecting air from the exhaust but is only running on limited intake air) and would trigger the limp home mode.

I would inspect all air hoses, turbo actuator, EGR valve and electronic throttle body, MAF sensor, MAP sensor, Swirl flaps (you mention these are broken) and also see if you can trigger the limp mode to get a fault code.

It seems very unlikely they have removed the engine head. Even to change the swirl flap arm you need to remove the injector pipes and the top cover, and only then can you get to the cylinder head. And if they did have that off, why not repair the swirl flaps? I would doubt anything was ever done to the engine cover.

Clearly the garage is not telling the whole truth, however, you had put the car in with a power loss issue which may now be worse following the servicing (for example say there was an existing fault with the air intake leaking somewhere, a blocked fuel filter could have been making it go into limp mode and once that was changed it lets more fuel through and now it has black smoke due to the air leak, faults are often linked to more than one).

You best course of action would be to retrieve the car and take it to a main dealer. That way you have a better chance of getting a real diagnosis of the fault. I would not be giving them 2k for parts when it most likely is not the fault.

[sspaul121]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

Thanks for the clarification.

I concur with Tannaton. Retrieve the vehicle and use another garage to diagnose and resolve the issue.

It's likely that nothing useful can be achieved by continuing to pursue it with the the current garage. Even if they are correct, your trust in the customer relationship has broken down. In their defense, there's nothing concrete yet to show that your vehicle didn't have an incipient fault which fully developed during the time they held it for other work. They will, rightly, point out in any legal defense that you'd reported an engine problem to them at the time you delivered it to them. If that had not been the case (ie. running perfectly but returned broken), the situation would be very much more clear cut in your favour.

Until an independent third party has correctly diagnosed and resolved the issue, your remedy options aren't clear. If you can find someone suitably qualified to make the determination (perhaps a mechanic from one of the local specialists you spoke to?) then Reggit's advice might be a way to go, IF you're still happy for the original garage to make the repair if it's diagnosis is confirmed.

I went back to the Trader and asked for a detailed report to request:

1. Details of the damage caused.

2. The cause of the damage i.e. cambelt and/or tensioners being compromised, head gasket failing or broken parts entering the cylinder head area.

The Trader's response:
"‘All this information has been provided and explained at length. I see little point in re- covering information provided from day one’."

The point being here that apart from some phone calls none of this is in writing, apart from a brief one line explanation on an invoice.

[palwing]

Originally Posted by sspaul121

I went back to the Trader and asked for a detailed report to request:

1. Details of the damage caused.

2. The cause of the damage i.e. cambelt and/or tensioners being compromised, head gasket failing or broken parts entering the cylinder head area.

The Trader's response:
"‘All this information has been provided and explained at length. I see little point in re- covering information provided from day one’."

The point being here that apart from some phone calls none of this is in writing, apart from a brief one line explanation on an invoice.

It would appear the garage are reluctant to implicate themselves further by memorialising their actions in writing, which could be used against them.

A wise person once told me that “when you have a headache because you are beating your head against a brick wall, the best course of action is to STOP beating your head against the brick wall.” It sounds to me like you are at that point.

I would be tempted to write all your points in a letter to the garage and keep a copy. Send the original by recorded delivery to the garage and move your car to an independent garage who know what they are doing. A Volvo specialist or Volvo themselves perhaps, depending on the value of your car. You can always revisit your complaint though the small claims court at a later date, depending on the findings of the independent garage conclusion.

Hopefully, your headache will then slowly subside in time. Good luck.

[NI_Volvo_Nut]

It sounds to me like one or more injector seats may be damaged from leaking seals. This would reduce compression, introduce poor performance and heavy smoke.

The seats are "cut" into the cylinder head, it wouldn't make sense or be possible to remove and refit a cylinder head without using new parts if some description, even fluids!

Removing and refitting to the point of injectors would be possible without replacing parts and would make the original fault much more obvious. I would also like to think they could provide you with this explaination if that is indeed the case. It is also repairable, the seats can be recut by a specialist without the head being removed.

What I really want to know is what the hell is costing £2k in parts???? An replacement engine at the extreme cost would be £1500 second hand.

[sspaul121]

Timing belt/tensioner kit D5
poly vee belt,
tensioner 1
Bosch Glow Plug x 5
Elring Head Bolt Set
swirl flaps
RCG
Link
headgasket
cylinder head (most expensive part @ £1200)

Lab £767.25
Parts £1,711
VAT £496.26
Estimate Total £2,977.54

[sspaul121]

Originally Posted by palwing

It would appear the garage are reluctant to implicate themselves further by memorialising their actions in writing, which could be used against them.

A wise person once told me that “when you have a headache because you are beating your head against a brick wall, the best course of action is to STOP beating your head against the brick wall.” It sounds to me like you are at that point.

I would be tempted to write all your points in a letter to the garage and keep a copy. Send the original by recorded delivery to the garage and move your car to an independent garage who know what they are doing. A Volvo specialist or Volvo themselves perhaps, depending on the value of your car. You can always revisit your complaint though the small claims court at a later date, depending on the findings of the independent garage conclusion.

Hopefully, your headache will then slowly subside in time. Good luck.

After 8+ months I am starting to waiver.

I have some other personal issues at the moment including probate and job security. This is not the highest priority.

I have also been in touch with an engineer from the Institute Of Automotive Engineer Assessors (IAEA) this morning.

He was helpful. Essentially he said that he could perform an inspection at a cost of approx £400 (if required). This would be a "Part 35 expert report" that could be used if the case were to go to small claims.

However he also said that if the issue arose as part of the emissions check/MOT then in his experience I don't really have any comeback. He stated that without revving the engine hard a garage cannot perform the test.

Moreover and apart from the aforementioned proving how the damage occurred would also be difficult, especially as the Trader is not being transparent with regards to a formal report.

Doing the maths, factoring in the engineers guidance and the time spent/stress so far, I am inclined to sell the vehicle as is for parts and get £500.

This is rather frustrating as my gut tells me, based on the behaviour of the Trader, that they have contributed to the issue in some way but not holding up their hands and admitting to it. Proving that would be difficult.

[Moose Test]

I think the comments from palwing are sage. Forget about trying to make further progress with the current garage, until you have further information available to you. As palwing has said, reclaiming your vehicle and seeking repair elsewhere still leaves open the option of a remedy through the small claims court at a later time, when you have all the facts available that you can.

I would not part with £400 for the IAEA inspection. There's no guarantee that it will advance your cause (at least, no more so than having it looked at by a another specialist or dealer) and it feels to me as if it's a good chunk of what it might cost to repair your car. I would ask another Volvo independent for a repair estimate, if they were amenable to using a second hand head for the repair, so you have something for comparison. Given that vehicles of the age of yours are going for between 3500 and 6k on autotrader, parting with it for £500 and then potentially taking on someone else's problem may well not be the most cost effective route to getting you back behind the wheel of a good XC90.