Subframe poly inserts - thoughts please

[Stumo]

Has anybody had experiences with these

Front Subframe Bush Polyurethane Insert Kit http://r.ebay.com/fLyTQ1

I've read good things about the IPD ones, but would like unsolicited comments

Thanks in advance

[happy diver]

half a fix for someone who only wants to do half a job
a cheap fix to keep a clapped out car going
a fools folly to stiffen the subframe

[acshortt5]

Originally Posted by happy diver

a fools folly to stiffen the subframe

Says the person with a C70 soft top that has solid aluminium bushings & additional chassis bracing to stiffen the subframe...

From experience the inserts slightly stiffen up the front end and have not noticably increased noise or vibration.

[Stumo]

Originally Posted by happy diver

half a fix for someone who only wants to do half a job
a cheap fix to keep a clapped out car going
a fools folly to stiffen the subframe

That's a no , then ?

Why a folly to try and regain some of what has been lost, I would love to experience what the Po had 18 years ago, without spending essentially half the cars value.

Is this crazy to stiffen the subframe , honestly, is it ?
I'm new to Volvo, but love it. I totally rebuilt a Merc - including building a roller/former 'extruder' to form the crease's in the new outer door skins - but never rebuilt to OEM the suspension.But that car has kept its value, this one - no matter my protests - has no hope of keeping even a minimum valve. I want to find out if it's close to new, so I can discover the 'new car feel' and maybe over capitalise and totally renew the suspension.

[acshortt5]

Stuff like this is always a compromise.
If you stiffen it up you will improve steering feel and response (as the steering rack is bolted to the top of the subframe) but (generally speaking) the more you stiffen the car the more noise/vibration you will get and start making it uncomfortable to ride in.

If you want a new oem feel then the only way to do that is fit new oem bushes (which are a PITA - but not impossible - with the subframe on the car).

If you want it a bit stiffer you could fit new oem bushes and install the inserts. There are also aftermarket bushes available which you could fit that are stiffer than oem.

If you want it even stiffer you can swap the subframe with one from a soft top C70 of the same era (1999 - 2004) and the big chassis brace with it. (This brace connects the rear of the subframe to the centre of the car body). You would need the corresponding bolts from volvo which are not particularly cheap.
The C70 coupe uses the standard rubber bushes. It's only the soft top that has the solid bushings.
Note that the c70 conv. subframe uses the 5 bolt wishbones which you will need as they are not interchangeable with the 3 bolt type you should currently have.

[Turbodave]

I fitted the poly insert a few weeks back (sourced from Parts for Volvos) and to be honest, didn't notice any difference good, bad nor indifferent... I did however find both front bushes were starting to separate so maybe the inserts were a waste of time.

I researched the possibility of dropping the sub frame and changing the bushes £12.00 each) but it just seems like a ball ache for the budding DIY mechanic so I've now got a complete C70 Convertible front end with the alloy bushes and braces to fit instead.

I'm neither here nor there with regards to noise / harshness / vibration... but it does feel a bit wobbly so hopefully it'll tighten things up. Given it runs standard suspension on 55 series winter tyres, I'm not exactly out to do an 8 minute lap of The Ring... but it would be nice to feel like the steering components aren't attached to the car with rubber bands and magic.

[brickman]

I did all four sub frame bushs in 2.5 hours of actual work, and 6 hours of finding the right tool for the job.


The right tools are...

Big hammer
Prying screwdriver (strong one)
Feinn /erbaur / bosch multi tool with 1/1.5" wide plastic and wood cutting blade.

Jack the car, support front of both sills.loosen all four bush bolts right off, remove only one at a time fully though. With sub frame clear of body use multi tool to effectively slice and dice the centre of the bushs out. Then pry the rest out (easy)

To refit, lots of anti seize, two 0.5x1" battons to sit between frame and body and use old bolts to wind them in. Then remove old bolt and use new stretch bolt, once all four are done, drop on wheels then torque + angle up to spec. Drive a bit and recheck. Insert bush inserts too into stock bushs to make a good difference.
The only thing in know that truly sorts the front end out is those delrin bushs or solid metal inserts (for big power track only really)

Without that multi tool it would be a miserable task that would probably end up in giving up and having to drop the sub frame then take it to a garage with a hydraulic press

[Stumo]

Thanks Brickman - that's what I wanted !

Noticible difference ? - I'm not after stiffness or performance, I'm after recapturing the lost new car comfort so it would be OM parts. It's only a 10v after all .

[R-P]

Originally Posted by brickman

To refit, lots of anti seize, two 0.5x1" battons to sit between frame and body and use old bolts to wind them in.

Brickman or anyone else who knows: where do you put the anti-seize? Around the bushing to make it slide in easier?
And what are 0.5x1" battons (I am thinking of sticks the police use to hit people but they are a lot bigger...), and why would you place anything inbetween frame and body?

I am assuming the subframe bushings will be comparable between my V70 P2 and your cars, or at least the removal/placing procedure.

[classicswede]

I have fitted a lot of sets some made by a guy on the VT forum and some my own.

In every case I noticed the feel of the steering improve and the car feels a lot less floaty.

I did use some grease to help with fitting but you need to make sure it is a type that does not attack rubber