Newbie looking for V70 advice

[LardFather]

I'll look into the throttle body on the forums.

It has no MOT but full service history cambelt has 20k to go before it needs to be changed. I was unaware that dealers can't sell cars 'as seen', that's interesting.

The way I see it is I have two options should I wish to buy the car;

1. Get it trailer-ed back to my house (£50), fix it, MOT it and then tidy it up
2. Get it fixed where it is, arrange an MOT and then drive it home

I think option 2 gives me more confidence in the car but option 1 lets me negotiate a price a little more.

[capt jack]

Hmm. A quick look at the BBA site suggests that a re-manufactured throttle body will set you back £300. I couldn't see a Volvo one, but all the others were around that mark. A scrapyard one will cost you less, but you risk it being goosed too.

As for the rules, anything sold second hand, including a car, must be fit for purpose and as described. Clearly the car isn't at present fit for purpose - it's undriveable and has no MoT. I have a feeling that a trader selling a car that is technically unroadworthy - ie: not capable of passing an MOT - is breaking the law anyway. This from a consumer rights website:

It is illegal to sell an unroadworthy car, except for spares or repairs and must not be driven on the road until repaired.

The car had been advertised as "trade sale, no warranty given" and “sold as seen”. However, garages cannot use these statements to deny consumers their legal rights.

When a consumer buys a car from a trader they should expect the car to be

of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)
meet any description they were given prior to purchase and
be fit for the purpose

If the second hand car does not meet these requirements, the consumer has the right to claim against the dealer for breach of contract.

Why not try this approach?

Tell the dealer you'll give him say £850 for the car provided that he gets it fixed and supplies it with a new MoT. If he is right, and it's the throttle body, then he sells the car for his full asking price and covers the cost of the new throttle body. You get a car in which you can have some confidence, at the price that you'd pay for doing it all yourself. But he takes the risk, not you. If he won't do it then ask yourself why you should be willing to take this car on and aim to fix it when the dealer clearly doesn't want to! He is a second-hand car dealer and he'll know all about taking risks on an old car. That's his business, so don't feel sorry for him!

If you can't buy it on your terms then walk away. I know it's frustrating, but cars at this level are a financial risk. If you give him £495 and the car can't be fixed easily you are out of pocket. And with scrap values of cars at rock bottom you won't even be able to recoup much from the breakers yard.

It's a pain, but it's generally best to hang onto your cash until you're 100% happy.

Cheers

Jack

[LardFather]

Your suggestion is a great idea, 850 for the car fixed and MOT'd. I was willing to pay 495 for the car and get it trailer'd home for 50 then spend then 2/300 on the throttle body, at least if its running and driving with 12 months ticket its a much lower risk.

I'll give him a call later today, thanks Capt

[capt jack]

A p1 V70 with modest miles, a good service history, 12 months MOT and a new throttle body, on the road for under a grand - that's a fair deal.

Good luck - hope it all works out.

Cheers

Jack

[LardFather]

Just spoken to Lisa @ BBA Reman who was great, she advised me that the prices are as follows;

• £35 plus VAT and carriage for a diagnosis
• £165 to repair the unit with a lifetime warranty plus VAT and carriage

My reckoning (assuming about £15 for postage) puts the repair bill at £258 assuming its fixable, they also said that there is a 3-5 day turn around on the item.

I know its a risk but I'm very tempted to haggle him down if I can and get it trailer-ed. I've no idea what the car's worth as parts if the worst is realised

[LardFather]

This has just caught my eye (again), very local but phase 2 and auto

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-V70-...wAAOSwaB5XnUdO

Its been on ebay for a few weeks now and the price has changed a few times from 1250 to 995 to 895 and now 745.

[capt jack]

Looks OK for the money, although the MOT history would suggest that the mileage recorded at the Sept 2015 test needs explaining!

The thing is, at 150k miles and over 15 years old, even a Volvo will probably need some TLC from it's new owner. Cars at that level are offered for sale very often because the owner is aware (or at least believes) that some big bills are just around the corner.

So, what are the possibilities?

• Cambelt and water pump. That needs to be done on most cars at around 80k, then at 160k, or on a time basis. If the car has at least 20k miles or 2 yrs before the next belt then that's reasonable.
  
• Air con not working. A recharge is £40, but if that should uncover more serious problems then the potential costs escalate rapidly - or you do without aircon.
  
• Brakes. Discs and pads wear out, but are easy to inspect and should be examined on MoT. DIY for around £100 an axle, double that for a garage to do it.
  
• Suspension, tyres, steering and other grubby bits underneath. Bushes wear, bearings rumble and whine, rubber gaiters crack, shockers and racks leak, springs sag or break, tired suspensions creak and knock. Exhausts get exhausted. Rust in key places there should be none. All this should be evident from the MoT. If it isn't clear then walk away.
  
• Driver displays. As modern computerised cars age the dashboard displays can start to fade and falter. This can get expensive as sometimes dealer-only software is needed to put things straight after a new ECU is fitted. Also, make sure that ALL the dash warning lights come on and go off in the appropriate places.
  
• Leaks. Worrisome leaks would be engine oil - especially from the rear main seal (£mega to put right), auto box fluid or coolant loss with no obvious explanation, or fuel. Water ingress into the car can be a major problem too. It takes 2 seconds to look at the engine and gearbox oil dipsticks - anything other than reasonably clean and odour-free suggest trouble.
  
• Driving. Does everything work, do gears change smoothly, do brakes stop effectively, do all the lights and electrics work, is the car happy to stay in a straight line if you let go the steering wheel? Is there any vibration through the car at speed? If possible drive it at 70mph.

When considering a car of this age and mileage bear in mind that if it's made it this far OK and still runs well then it's probably got a good few miles left in it.

You have to be guided by common sense - assume it's a dodgy car until proven otherwise. Look for obvious problems from the list above. Find out if you can why it's for sale, especially if the owner hasn't had it long, or it's changed hands frequently in a short space of time. Ask yourself, based on what you see, would you trust the seller? An honest private owner sells the car from home, offers you a cuppa, asks to see your insurance before a test drive, and is a bit awkward about discussing money. Anyone who is being a bit evasive is probably a crook.

But if the car a good long MoT (10 months minimum), been regularly serviced, there are no obvious issues, and no obvious warning lights, the tyres and brakes are good - and the price is right - then why not go for it?

Cheers

Jack

PS: just spotted that car has 2 months MoT to go. Could the seller possibly be aware that it's likely to need repair and so that's why he's selling? Maybe.

PPS: Make sure that the wheel locking key is present and that it does actually undo the wheel nuts!

[LardFather]

Good shout on the MOT situation, it may explain the erratic price drops and willingness to accepts offers. I'm guessing its just a mistake on the MOT in regard to the mileage (it has happened to me on an other car) but having the reg from the first photo is handy. Although the car has been online for some time (at different prices) the owner has never confirmed the reg (either by ebay message or text) to me after being requested a couple of times, I'm a bit dubious of this kind of behaviour.

With regard to the points you raise; I'm guessing the cambelt will last for a while as it was done last year, the air con isn't a massive concern as I've re-instated it in a couple of cars in the past, I can replace discs and pads myself but not suspension easily. The electronics and gearbox are my main concerns though as these seem to be volvo specific and I can't apply previous experience here but if checking the gearbox oil is all it takes I'm happy to have a look. I think the test drive is key too along with the real reason for sale but the guy is hardly likely to say he's selling it because X or Y is needed for the MOT and that's a massive cost; unless he's unscrupulously honest

[capt jack]

On the electronics - if it's working OK at the moment, and it has been doing so for 150,000 miles then I'd say that the odds of it continuing to work OK are in your favour.

Auto gearbox? Well ditto really. Check the fluid if you can. If it's very black and smelly then walk away. If it's very fresh ask yourself - and the seller - if it's been changed very recently to mask a problem. If it's a bit brown but not smelly and still fairly clear then it's probably going to be OK.

If the p2 is the same as the p1 gearbox then check that the reverse lights work properly (the PNP switch controls this as well as telling the car which gear it's in). The PNP switch does go wrong - not an impossible fix, but something to be aware of.

Driving the car, can you feel any jerky up-shifts as you accelerate, or any clumsy downshifts as you brake? Any lack of smoothness means possible trouble. Does the kick-down work? Does the car clunk when moving from P or N into D and R? If so then walk away. In essence a good auto gearbox will shift pretty well up and down without you knowing, it will change down without hesitation if you floor the throttle, and will drop neatly into and out of D and P without a clunk or a judder. If it has the option then check that any Sport or Winter settings work, and again if fitted, that any manual selectors (paddles etc) work too.

Volvos are brilliant cars, well engineered, well built, and if sensibly driven and looked after, are capable of huge mileages and superb reliability. When sold my own V70 was 18 years old and had done almost 300,000 trouble-free miles, 250,000 in my care. I regret to this day my decision to sell it.

Finally, on the subject of 'reading the seller', I think that most of us have a sixth sense when it comes to trusting someone. For that reason it's a good idea to have someone with you - ideally of the female persuasion. I know this sounds sexist, but the four ladies in my immediate family life - Mrs Jack, Daughters 1 & 2, and Mum-in-law might know diddly-squat about cars, but they can read people!

Cheers

Jack

[LardFather]

That's a good perspective as I can't imagine wires wear out in the same way friction or moving parts do. The auto gearboxes do concern me though so I'll be cautious if I go and look at one but the car we've been chatting about has been bumped up to 1298 from 749, the guy juggles the price around and whilst I don't have feminine intuition it just seems a bit dodgy to me.

+1 on the Volvo praise, they're like an aging spy army; recently I've noticed loads of old Volvos in decent condition that don't appear to have been 'enthusiast owned' which I take to mean they're durable and worth keeping a hold of.

I'm genuinely stuck between a nice, comfy, modern-ish P2 or a solid, easily maintainable, classic p1. Oh decisions, decisions