Wheels/Tyres: Anyone else getting their Winter tyres ready?

[Daim]

Problem is, people with AWD are so biased that their car is above all others and don't need Winter tyres because it has AWD. They always forget, that traction doesn't always rely on which wheels are powered but on those with the correct tyres.

This video shows how "well" 4WD works with the wrong tyres on simple "mud" which has similar traction possibilities, as ice and snow...:

+ YouTube Video

Fit the wrong wheels and you'll not even be able to take off. At the same time, you won't be able to stop, as the wheels, hardend up due to the harsh cold conditions...

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

Maybe these are the answer..

+ YouTube Video

Just need to remember to pull them off when there is no snow/ice. Like the socks..

Des. . .

[Bill_56]

This debate is always interesting and personally I'm a big supporter of winter-tyre users, having installed them from necessity (thanks to where I live these days), for the first time in 37 years' driving in the winter of 09/10, and then wondering how I ever got by without them. Mine are sat in the corner of my garage, on a spare set of wheels, all ready to see me through a third winter (still well over 5mm tread). I do feel smug when I see the neighbours' expensive 4x4s that they've bought in an attempt to solve the same problem (though I've yet to see one fitted with properly siped winter tyres!).

But perhaps I can throw in an extra challenge, respecting the views of those who are sceptical, and leaving the theoretical debates aside...

... has anybody who's actually driven a car fitted with four 'proper' (not just M&S) winter tyres ever been disappointed with their performance on sheet ice and snow, or not agree that they are a big advantage?

[tt82]

Originally Posted by weble

I think they call those little teeth "Cutters" which do most the work while the blocky tread displaces and expels snow so the tread is clear for it's next contact with the ground.

These were my Avons


I took this photo in Argos carpark. The deep well cut in tracks were mine, The lighter, almost skimming over the surface tracks in front were from a Peugeot 307 on normal tyres, the wider ones going straight across were from a crewcab 4x4 type vehicle. All three were made in about 15 min of each other and there was no fresh snow falling to cover any sets of tracks.

They do cut in really well!

Those little cutters are called "sipes". Sipes work by becoming full of compacted snow and it is actually the snow in these snipes that grips with the snow on the road. When it next snows make 2 snowballs and try to slide them past each other, you will find there is an incredible amount of friction. This is where you get grip. The rest of the tread pattern is then designed to remove water and slush.

[222s]

This winter, I'll be running a set of Vredrestien Snow+ in 165/80R15, as my existing summer tyres (in the same size) are pretty much useless in snow. I've heard very good things about the Vredrestiens (when fitted to Amazons), & hopefully they won't disappoint!

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

Originally Posted by tt82

Havent got the Gentle Touch CD but it has been on my Amazon wish list for a while now, think I may end up treating myself to it at some point.

£4 inc delivery. How longs it been on your wish list??

Des. . .

[princepugh]

As I'm getting ready for new tyres I'm going for a compromise this time around in the form of the Vredestein Quatrac 3.

[weble]

Originally Posted by tt82

Those little cutters are called "sipes". Sipes work by becoming full of compacted snow and it is actually the snow in these snipes that grips with the snow on the road. When it next snows make 2 snowballs and try to slide them past each other, you will find there is an incredible amount of friction. This is where you get grip. The rest of the tread pattern is then designed to remove water and slush.

Learn something new everyday! Thanks for the info!

[lillia]

Originally Posted by Daim

I stood last year in Harwich in their "snow storm" shortly before Christmas. I just got off the ferry from Hoek-Van-Holland and was stuck in a traffic jam, because a lorry couldn't get up those slight inclines. I stood 3 hours untill I had enough and in the end overtook about a 3 mile long queue of people not being able to drive in about 3 inches of snow due to having no appropriate tyres... I was on a dual carriage way (the A12) heading towards Ipswich and was the only car using the outside lane... Traffic on the inside lane was basically parked up. I was cruising IN SNOW at around 40 mph!

It wasn't unsafe... I've driven 120 km/h (~75 mph) in/on snow on an Autobahn with not one issue. Traffic flows (on Winter tyres!) as if it was Summer! At least here... The tyres have their limits and you can't trick physics with tyres but you can at least use the grip possible... If you hit a curve too fast, you won't stay on the road, you wouldn't do so in Summer either... But on Winter tyres you can NEARLY keep your normal warm weather speeds and cornering styles...

I prefer to spend my time MOVING rather than STANDING... And standing includes waiting behind other people, who - like you - don't see any sense in buying Winter tyres

You've made many good points. And I admire your patience in giving these explanations. I'm afraid I lost mine a while ago, despite my best efforts to convince the Brits I know to at least consider fitting winter tyres. My sister fitted all season tyres last September as a compromise after I reminded her that she had two young children to travel with and could not afford to blow off her job due to snow, but her in-laws' cars were all stuck at home or at work during the winter, which they complained bitterly about.

It's all about ignorance, and I don't do very well in the face of the wilfull variety. What British motorists need is a good lesson in road safety, tyres, traction, etc. And then they would understand exactly why several countries have laws mandating the use of winter tyres during certain months of the year.

What the naysayers do not understand is that the whole point of winter tyres - apart from personal safety - is to enable people to go about their business normally, to enable traffic and deliveries and the country in general to function precisely as they would during the summer months. Thus Royal Mail would not have screwed up its deliveries for months "due to the winter", a laughable excuse if there ever was one. And NO-ONE would be able to say that they could not get to work because of the snow.

I'm amazed that an aspiring politician or government minister has not seized the initiative and pointed out just how much the country would gain (or not lose) by fitting winter tyres to vehicles during winter.

Another source of annoyance to me is the constant reference to salt as grit. In the rest of Europe, "grit" is mainly SAND. Salt is used to melt the snow to a degree, however, in very cold temperatures this quickly freezes into very smooth ice, turning roads into a veritable skating rink. Thus instead of moaning about the price and unavailability of salt during winter, the mayors and other powers that be ought to be liberally sprinkling roads and walkways with sand, and motorways with a mixture of salt and sand. THAT is what grit is. Salt alone just won't do it. I swear, I wanted to scream at the ignorance on show last winter, each time I heard a BBC person solemnly informing listeners/viewers that there was a shortage of "grit", when sand was in plentiful supply. How many people slipped and broke their arms, legs and hips last year due to Councils sitting on their hands because they had no salt, when they could have improved things by spreading sand on sidewalks?

In many places in Sweden, houses will have a large green container with the word "S A N D" printed on it in black. This is filled up with sand, either by the Council or by the homeowners themselves towards the end of autumn. Every homeowner owns a snow shovel. When snow falls, they first scrape/shovel away the snow and then scatter sand over their driveways and walkways. Some people will sprinkle some salt as well. The first result is that they have no difficulty driving in and out of their driveways, even if they are on inclines. The second is that they greatly minimise the risk of slipping on the walkways either on or immediately outside of their properties. In fact, it has been the law for some time that if anyone slips on ice outside a person's gate, then the owner is at fault. An unfortunate result is that many people in cities have taken to cordoning off the walkways and sidewalks around/ourside of their offices and houses so as to avoid lawsuits. This forces people to walk on the roads instead.

With winter tyres, I am able to drive at 120 - 160 km/h between Göteborg and Oslo and between Stockholm and Göteborg and other far-flung places without worry and without being timid. Best of all, I don't usually have to worry about other people skidding into me because other drivers around me have also fitted winter tyres. For me, this is a win-win situation.

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

Originally Posted by lillia

And then they would understand exactly why several countries have laws mandating the use of winter tyres during certain months of the year.

What the naysayers do not understand is that the whole point of winter tyres - apart from personal safety - is to enable people to go about their business normally, to enable traffic and deliveries and the country in general to function precisely as they would during the summer months. Thus Royal Mail would not have screwed up its deliveries for months "due to the winter", a laughable excuse if there ever was one. And NO-ONE would be able to say that they could not get to work because of the snow.

I'm amazed that an aspiring politician or government minister has not seized the initiative and pointed out just how much the country would gain (or not lose) by fitting winter tyres to vehicles during winter.

Indeed, but then in countries where roads are regularly under snow for weeks at a time (months even) over the winter period then this is a sensible precaution.
How long do tyres last when stored? 2 years, 5 years, 10 years - before they start to deteriorate/go off? Spending £350 for one use (before the tyres go off) may seem a little excessive to some people...

Originally Posted by lillia

In many places in Sweden, houses will have a large green container with the word "S A N D" printed on it in black. This is filled up with sand, either by the Council or by the homeowners themselves towards the end of autumn. Every homeowner owns a snow shovel. When snow falls, they first scrape/shovel away the snow and then scatter sand over their driveways and walkways. Some people will sprinkle some salt as well. The first result is that they have no difficulty driving in and out of their driveways, even if they are on inclines. The second is that they greatly minimise the risk of slipping on the walkways either on or immediately outside of their properties. In fact, it has been the law for some time that if anyone slips on ice outside a person's gate, then the owner is at fault. An unfortunate result is that many people in cities have taken to cordoning off the walkways and sidewalks around/ourside of their offices and houses so as to avoid lawsuits. This forces people to walk on the roads instead.

And in Germany (certainly some regions of Germany) the householder is required by law to clear the pavement that borders his/her/their property.
Not so here in the UK. Mores the pity really!

Des. . .