Engine: TDI: - D5252T MSA 15.8 Dynamic Timing

Baffler · Dec 2nd, 2017, 19:21

Need your suggestions on this one folks...

I've just replaced the cam belt along with the fuel pump belt on our '99 V70 but it's running rather advanced. I've tried retarding it and gradually advancing it (0.5mm increments - fuel pump pulley) but can only get it to start in an advanced position. I eventually get it up to operating temperature but when I start the Dynamic Timing Test, via VIDA, it heavily over fuels and runs abnormal. 58° flashed at me as I was stopping the test.

What am I missing?

doingitsideways · Dec 4th, 2017, 20:52

Strange.

Possible your cam-crank timing is slightly out.
If it were me, I'd go back to the beginning:

Set and lock the crank at TDC.
Release cam pulley at crank end, set cam to TDC, refit pulley/belt and torque up.
Release cam pulley at pump end, set pump thickness of timing mark advanced, refit belt and torque pulley.
Then try timing with Vida and see how it goes.

Baffler · Dec 4th, 2017, 23:23

Strange indeed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by doingitsideways

set pump thickness of timing mark advanced, refit belt and torque pulley.

Thanks Sideways! I'll give that a go in the morning. Is that the equivalent to one tooth on the pump pulley?

doingitsideways · Dec 5th, 2017, 00:19

No.
One tooth is a pretty massive amount really.
There's a mark on the pump body and one on the pulley.
When you find them you'll see what I mean by advancing the pulley the thickness of the mark.
You'll be doing this with the cam pulley slackened off (they don't have a keyway, so once the bolt is slackened off and with a quick tap, will freewheel on their mount)

PNuT · Dec 5th, 2017, 08:45

isnt 58 degrees retarded? it would need a - in front of it to be advanced?

I doubt it would start 58 degrees advanced but might 58 degrees retarded

In general I have found they will start extremely retarded but not advanced, 7 degrees of advance & they seem to struggle

PNuT · Dec 5th, 2017, 08:49

https://goo.gl/images/XSEURf

I use a tool like that to set the cam in the right position...

doingitsideways · Dec 5th, 2017, 23:19

Did you manage to sort this Liam?

Baffler · Dec 6th, 2017, 12:59

Yes, managed to get it to -0.5° in the end. Thank you and PNut!

I was 6 to 8mm retarded (as per "initial setting, engine and injection pump") which is approximately the thickness of the lower lobe of the engine marker. I have one or two pics on my phone but need to figure out how to resize in order to upload.

Doing some research I came across some very interesting threads/posts. I'm sure there are plenty more so it would be great if the moderators could create a TDI / 2.5D subfolder in the Articles section for future reference.

D5252T ('96 850 TDI) Dynamic Pump Timing - any tips?

Vol-Fcr 1.7.6

2.5 TDI fuel pump timing mark / base settings

Post #4 in the above thread NI_Volvo_Nut describes exactly what you advised.

Thanks again to you, Sideways, and all experienced members of the forum!

doingitsideways · Dec 6th, 2017, 19:12

Glad you're sorted.

If you can, try and set it around 0.5° advanced.
Best all-round combination of starting, smooth running, economy and power

martin_r_smith · Dec 6th, 2017, 22:16

A quick note on this. With vol fcr, a minus figure actually means retarded not advanced.

Dec 2nd, 2017, 19:21	#1
Baffler Premier Member Last Online: Yesterday 23:43 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland	D5252T MSA 15.8 Dynamic Timing Need your suggestions on this one folks... I've just replaced the cam belt along with the fuel pump belt on our '99 V70 but it's running rather advanced. I've tried retarding it and gradually advancing it (0.5mm increments - fuel pump pulley) but can only get it to start in an advanced position. I eventually get it up to operating temperature but when I start the Dynamic Timing Test, via VIDA, it heavily over fuels and runs abnormal. 58° flashed at me as I was stopping the test. What am I missing? __________________ Liam... '96 854 TDI SE, '99 V70 2.5D S, '05 C70 2.0T Collection, '05 S80 2.0T SE, '15 V70 D4 SE Lux Nav.

Dec 4th, 2017, 20:52	#2
doingitsideways The Daddy Last Online: Feb 29th, 2024 15:07 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manchester	Strange. Possible your cam-crank timing is slightly out. If it were me, I'd go back to the beginning: Set and lock the crank at TDC. Release cam pulley at crank end, set cam to TDC, refit pulley/belt and torque up. Release cam pulley at pump end, set pump thickness of timing mark advanced, refit belt and torque pulley. Then try timing with Vida and see how it goes. __________________ XC90 V8 Exec, C70 2.4T Convertible, S70 T5 CD, 850 TDI, 2 x Escort vans and a 2.8i Capri. Clearout has begun, but must continue!

Dec 5th, 2017, 08:45	#5
PNuT MaDMaN Last Online: Nov 26th, 2022 18:47 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Red Lodge	isnt 58 degrees retarded? it would need a - in front of it to be advanced? I doubt it would start 58 degrees advanced but might 58 degrees retarded In general I have found they will start extremely retarded but not advanced, 7 degrees of advance & they seem to struggle __________________

Dec 5th, 2017, 08:49	#6
PNuT MaDMaN Last Online: Nov 26th, 2022 18:47 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Red Lodge	https://goo.gl/images/XSEURf I use a tool like that to set the cam in the right position... __________________

Dec 5th, 2017, 23:19	#7
doingitsideways The Daddy Last Online: Feb 29th, 2024 15:07 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manchester	Did you manage to sort this Liam? __________________ XC90 V8 Exec, C70 2.4T Convertible, S70 T5 CD, 850 TDI, 2 x Escort vans and a 2.8i Capri. Clearout has begun, but must continue!

Dec 5th, 2017, 00:19	#4
doingitsideways The Daddy Last Online: Feb 29th, 2024 15:07 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manchester	No. One tooth is a pretty massive amount really. There's a mark on the pump body and one on the pulley. When you find them you'll see what I mean by advancing the pulley the thickness of the mark. You'll be doing this with the cam pulley slackened off (they don't have a keyway, so once the bolt is slackened off and with a quick tap, will freewheel on their mount) __________________ XC90 V8 Exec, C70 2.4T Convertible, S70 T5 CD, 850 TDI, 2 x Escort vans and a 2.8i Capri. Clearout has begun, but must continue!

Dec 6th, 2017, 12:59	#8
Baffler Premier Member Last Online: Yesterday 23:43 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland	Yes, managed to get it to -0.5° in the end. Thank you and PNut! I was 6 to 8mm retarded (as per "initial setting, engine and injection pump") which is approximately the thickness of the lower lobe of the engine marker. I have one or two pics on my phone but need to figure out how to resize in order to upload. Doing some research I came across some very interesting threads/posts. I'm sure there are plenty more so it would be great if the moderators could create a TDI / 2.5D subfolder in the Articles section for future reference. D5252T ('96 850 TDI) Dynamic Pump Timing - any tips? Vol-Fcr 1.7.6 2.5 TDI fuel pump timing mark / base settings Post #4 in the above thread NI_Volvo_Nut describes exactly what you advised. Thanks again to you, Sideways, and all experienced members of the forum! __________________ Liam... '96 854 TDI SE, '99 V70 2.5D S, '05 C70 2.0T Collection, '05 S80 2.0T SE, '15 V70 D4 SE Lux Nav.

Dec 6th, 2017, 19:12	#9
doingitsideways The Daddy Last Online: Feb 29th, 2024 15:07 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manchester	Glad you're sorted. If you can, try and set it around 0.5° advanced. Best all-round combination of starting, smooth running, economy and power __________________ XC90 V8 Exec, C70 2.4T Convertible, S70 T5 CD, 850 TDI, 2 x Escort vans and a 2.8i Capri. Clearout has begun, but must continue!

Dec 6th, 2017, 22:16	#10
martin_r_smith Premier Member Last Online: May 10th, 2022 21:01 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wiltshire	A quick note on this. With vol fcr, a minus figure actually means retarded not advanced. __________________ 1983 244

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