What's the problem with electric cars?

[GMcL]

The government has been losing money for years from fuel revenue as vehicles become more efficient and the fuel duty frozen resulted in vehicles covering greater distances for the same outlay.

The telematics systems can't use 2G or 3G as these have been switched off, with the introduction of 5G any 4G based system will be switched off within the next few years. That's the problem with tech, it keeps evolving, how do you exception handle the obsolete when it's quite a big exception ?

Start introducing allowances and abuse of the system will follow. Suddenly, uncle Tom who lives out in the middle of nowhere has relatives, who lives in big cities, vehicles registered at his address.
Allowances are not needed if rural roads are charged at 0p/mile then the question is how will they be maintained there will be a charge and because fewer people use them the usage per unit charge will be higher which is why I still maintain there are some services you cannot privatise, the numbers do not add up.

[Moose Test]

If a flate rate pay-per-mile system is the answer, then the problem we're attempting to address cannot be CO2 emissions / environmental impact.

To reverse the EV argument, IF this is the real objective it cannot be right for me to burn 2x the amount of fossil fuel than than a small hatchback to make the same journey and both of us still pay the same mileage charge. In exactly the same way that taxing me off the road so that a new vehicle has to be manufactured doesn't address that issue either.

As I've said previously, governments need to decide exactly what the fundamental objective and desired outcomes are and then select means which can correctly achieve them.

Anything is possible in today's "internet of things" world e.g. charging duty could be levied on EV charging points relative to the daily UK national grid energy mix of renewable vs fossil. There's no fundamental reason that fuel duty revenue has to be suspended simply because we're switching to new "fuels". You can bet that if hydrogen gets introduced as motor vehicle fuel then fuel duty will be collected on it, exactly as for petrol, diesel and LPG today.

[GMcL]

Whatever is done there will be winners and losers.

The 50,000 mile/year rep his company will struggle with PAYG which works in the low mileage drivers favour and vice versa for a standard flat fee.

The EV and city air pollution charge/ULEZ whatever you call it falls apart when any reduction from one source is sold on to another party. Maybe that is what is meant by NetZero, the Net being no reduction in pollution at all.

[Kev0607]

Sadiq Khan has known about "Project Detroit" for a long time, which he denies he knows anything about (clearly, as he's a compulsive liar). Yet money has already been allocated for staff etc.

"Project Detroit" is a name given to a scheme which is essentially "pay per mile". ULEZ has generated so much money that they're looking at ways to generate even more money. It doesn't matter what you drive, there's going to be a charge (if this goes ahead). ULEZ was the start, but this was the ultimate motive I think.

It seems that electric cars could be hard hit by this, as it won't be just emissions based, but also weight based. Electric cars are heavy due to battery weight. I also watched a video that said they may even consider charging cars more per mile if they have passengers, and they'll be able to see whether they do or don't with a roll-out of cameras.

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

With regards to tracking mileage, its not as hard as we may think. Many insurance companies advise motorists to install compulsory black boxes to cars, like new driver's for example. Many cars also have GPS built into their sat nav systems. The tech is already there, plus there's ANPR cameras all over the place nowadays.

https://www.mylondon.news/news/new-p...harge-28636547

[baggy798]

Just have two systems. ICE cars put the road tax on the fuel, and with EV cars have a black box or the system already onboard report the mileage to big brother. Charge EV owners the difference less a few pence compared to ICE cars.

Everyone is a winner!

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by baggy798

Just have two systems. ICE cars put the road tax on the fuel, and with EV cars have a black box or the system already onboard report the mileage to big brother. Charge EV owners the difference less a few pence compared to ICE cars.

Everyone is a winner!

That would be a simple way, and it does sound like an effective one. I don't think that's what they're planning though. It sounds to me like its going to be a complete reform. I believe its just London that'll be affected initially, but no doubt, it'll roll-out across the country as a way to generate revenue.

I've read lots of different articles. Some say that the plan is to introduce pay per mile on electric vehicles first in London, as petrol and diesel duty will be dropping off as more are swapping to EV's, then pay per mile will also be introduced to ICE cars at a later date (again, in London). There's still going to be ICE cars on the road, its not like everyone is going to swap to EV straight away (they haven't so far!).

Whether charges per mile will be for EV's first then ICE vehicles remains to be the question, we know what radical plans they can come up with!

Its all speculative at the moment, but I do think some kind of change in the system is coming. There's far too many reports on it and this pay per mile scheme isn't exactly brand new, as it has been talked about for many years now. Boris was talking about it when he was Mayor.

Driving around in an EV paying nothing is already coming to an end next year, as the Government have already announced road tax for EV's starts in 2025. That, in theory, means no pay per mile change is coming between now and then. Realistically, it'll probably be a few years off, but if they're losing £25 billion in fuel duty because of EV's becoming the norm (in future), that change could come fairly quick.

If they decide to tax EV's and ICE vehicles via a pay per mile system based on CO2 emissions and weight (which has been mentioned), it could start getting expensive to have a big car. Although, reports suggest that prices will be no higher than anyone is already paying, but we'll see... I don't trust them. The Government want old ICE cars off the road to meet their emissions targets... what better way to do it than raise the road tax to a ridiculous figure so people swap to EV's?

EV's will still be cheaper than ICE cars though (according to reports), as they don't have the particulate emissions from an exhaust like regular ICE vehicles do, but they still have the weight (and in some cases, lots of it). Take your big Range Rover's, Porsche's and Tesla's for example.

Time will tell, but I think its a London plan for the moment. It could become a national though, who knows!

[GMcL]

If the authorities really wanted to put an end to the horsepower arms race in EVs rather than tax on weight, tax on horsepower like the Italians do. Most regions charge between 2.5 and 2.9 cents/PS.

[Fika]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

I think the biggest problem with electric cars is this :

https://www.dacia.co.uk/hybrid-and-e...-city-car.html

Why aren't more car manufacturers making similar cars? i.e. more affordable, small, low performance "adequate" vehicles?

There has almost been this amnesty on electric cars that anything goes, we don't look at the miles per KWh like we do MPG on ICE cars. No consideration to the impact of manufacture, or just how clean it could have been.

If the buying public and motor industry was sincere about reducing the use of fossil fuels, half of electric car sales would be models like the above.

No use to the travelling sales rep but to someone like my wife, mother and sister who never does more than about 60 miles a day, just going from A to B - it's "adequate". And at nearly half the price of the next cheapest electric cars on the market (MG4 & Corsa-E) - it just shows the motor industry is taking the p***, while demand exceeds supply.

Well done Dacia. But I'm just saying, I won't be ordering one to replace my ICE car.

I did not know these even existed- for a long while now I had only seen EVs that are priced a lot higher and gave up on finding a cheapo EV.

[GMcL]

I find it quite ironic how defensive people get on here about safety and Volvo being the best then a cheap Dongfeng Nano Box gets rebranded Dacia Spring, gets a one star EuroNCAP rating, and interest is piqued.

Nowt as queer as folks as they say in 'ow much land.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by GMcL

I find it quite ironic how defensive people get on here about safety and Volvo being the best then a cheap Dongfeng Nano Box gets rebranded Dacia Spring, gets a one star EuroNCAP rating, and interest is piqued.

Nowt as queer as folks as they say in 'ow much land.

Probably because people can't afford the electric Volvo or car with similar safety like a Tesla, but they need transport.

Not everyone has that kind of money to spend on a car.