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Pre ignition

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Old Aug 31st, 2018, 17:24   #1
Andrew164
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My 164 does occasionally suffer from knocking though using 99 octane fuel and octane boosting additive does alleciate but not remove entirely. I do remember reading on a thread here that using a spark plug which burns cooler can help, can anyone advise
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Old Aug 31st, 2018, 19:37   #2
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By 'knocking' do you mean the engine pinks a bit under power? My friend had that on her Amazon, and it turned out to be the timing was a shade too far advanced. Therefore she had her cylinder head machined and fitted with hardened valves and guides so as to run on unleaded.

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Old Aug 31st, 2018, 20:25   #3
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Yeah, the timing wants retarding a little.
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Old Aug 31st, 2018, 22:58   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew164 View Post
My 164 does occasionally suffer from knocking though using 99 octane fuel and octane boosting additive does alleciate but not remove entirely. I do remember reading on a thread here that using a spark plug which burns cooler can help, can anyone advise
Is that the 164 E ? It could be the distributor too , wrong one , or worn , best check the advance curve … unleaded is pretty good these days although pinking could be a problem when it was introduced in the mid 1980's .
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Old Aug 31st, 2018, 23:02   #5
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From memory when I last saw Andrew's car it was not an 'E'. I have an 'E' and a basic - they have different dizzy's, the former having trembler contacts at the base of the dizzy too, there to tell the brain something i believe.
No - unless very coked up I stick with timing...

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Old Aug 31st, 2018, 23:58   #6
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From memory when I last saw Andrew's car it was not an 'E'. I have an 'E' and a basic - they have different dizzy's, the former having trembler contacts at the base of the dizzy too, there to tell the brain something i believe.
No - unless very coked up I stick with timing...

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when I worked on them, the B30E had a higher 10:1 compression ratio and was prone to pinking , if they are ok today then i'm sure the lower compression B30B would be ok , if not then something is wrong ..
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Old Sep 1st, 2018, 18:42   #7
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The book of words says to use 5 star petrol... 5 star was 101 octane. So running on factory settings with petrol that you can get these days, pinking is only to be expected.

Plugs aren't going to be making it worse if the existing ones are a healthy colour. Carbon deposits or that ceramicky stuff you get with them might, if the engine hasn't been taken apart and decoked for a long time.

I've just been accepting that the factory settings aren't directly usable with available petrol, and just using them as a starting point. Set it by the book, then go out to a suitable test hill with a spanner in my pocket and if it pinks, pop the bonnet and tap it back a fraction. If it doesn't pink, tap it forward until it just starts and then back it off until it stops.

This is no big deal, since the factory figures for any car are a one-size-fits-all compromise and this method gives a setting which is more accurate for the specific engine in question, so I'd be doing it just the same on any car. It just means that on a 164 the final setting ends up a wee bit more retarded than the book says, whereas on something like a Morris Minor which doesn't want high octane fuel anyway it may even end up a bit more advanced.

Quite why the B30 wants 5 star when the B20 which has the same combustion chamber only wants 4 star is not entirely clear, but for carburetted engines at least, my guess would be that the heat-exchanger manifold is producing higher charge temperatures, even when the bypass valves are open.

As far as the injected variants are concerned, I found that a B20E was actually improved by using the thicker B20A head gasket and thereby dropping the compression slightly. The expected loss of a few hp at the top end was not in practice noticeable, but there was a noticeable increase in flexibility in the mid range which made it a better drive. That was before unleaded, using real 4 star, so pinking didn't come into it, but I would expect the basic point to apply just as well to the B30E, that dropping the compression is not something to be afraid of.

Since it is possible to buy TEL as an additive, the pukka solution would be to use that and give the engine the fuel it's actually intended to have. It's not something I'd be keen on doing, though, because not only is the stuff foully poisonous - organic lead compounds are much nastier than the elemental or inorganic compound forms which are what you normally encounter - it is also absorbed directly through the skin. TEL massively diluted in petrol is one thing, but neat TEL is a bit different and not something I'd want to fiddle about with in petrol stations. Or even in a lab, really.
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Old Sep 1st, 2018, 20:18   #8
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This^ is to be taken note of.
I would set the timing in the same manner, any experienced old school mechanic would, but for anyone less experienced or comfortable its a bit of a worrying thing to attempt. Its nothing to be scared of, but you need to be able to detect very light pinking to get it right.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2018, 16:45   #9
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Remember that when twisting the distributor anti-clockwise to retard the ignition a bit, that 1º of turn equals 2º of timing so use very small movements. 2º on the dizzy is probably enough. Mark the distributor position before you undo the clamp so that you can go back to the start position if needed.
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Old Sep 15th, 2018, 20:59   #10
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Hi
I found that cooler plugs helped reduce pre-ignition on a B20E which has the same compression as a B30E. I think I used NGK BP6ES but please check.
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