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OIl

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Old Jul 12th, 2018, 11:47   #21
AndyV7o
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No, engines are engineered well and a 10w40 would have no benefits. Its partly the reason that modern engines can greatly outlast old engines designed around the thicker oils of tge day.
0w is the better grade when cold, the hot value of 20/30/40/50 etc doesnt have a lot of bearing on how tge oil is behaving in the critical areas, this is where the HTHS value represents the better picture of how an oil is behaving in terms of flow, oil cushion, etc. The spec of the oil stipulates the hths and lots of 30 and 40 oils for example have same/similar hths values which means they flow and form oil 'cushion' (the hydrodynamic body of oil which the spinning journals effectively float within inside the bearing) etc just the same. Thus is why manufactures tend to use a spec rather than a viscosity these days, they still have a viscosity range as it does matter, but not as much as hths. Afaik ALL the oil specs of manufacturers and acea have a stipulated hths value, whereas a lot of specs are available in multiple viscosities.
So, yeah, a manufacturer may spec B5 and have designed the engine around it, but it could still wear faster than if a B4 was used. Similar with c specs, C3 for example is effectively a mid saps version of B4 and should in principle be backwards compatible, but, it still over (a very) long term performs slightly poorer, and the saps substitutes only work well in the right environment, some engines would/will wear excessively if C3 is used in place of B4.
If however you were to try and use a 0w30 B4 in place of the new volvo spec designed around C5 (ro20 thingy-bob 0w20) you'd give the thing problems, starving areas of oil as even though the grade is not too different the hths is massively different.

There isnt an ideal oil unfortunately, it depends on craploads of things, A3/B4 is close to udeal, but not in certain engines and is bad for dpf's, which then shifts in favour of C3 which isnt quite man-enough in terms of anti-wear ingredients for certain engines.........
The fuel savings are minimal, the environmental improvements of C specs is worthwhile.
Design an engine to work optimally with C4 and you are close to nirvana....
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Old Jul 12th, 2018, 12:01   #22
Laird Scooby
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Thanks Andy - can see i've got a lot of reading to do!

I've no doubt the engines are well engineered, it seems however that simply by using the wrong oil (perhaps in an emergency situation or simply picking the wrong one of a shelf full of correct containers) that the engine could soon be history, simply through lack of knowledge on the owners/drivers part.

To me, that doesn't make sense when the oils are outwardly very similar, just with different specs.
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Old Jul 12th, 2018, 12:28   #23
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No, using the wrong oil by accident or as an emergency wont kill your engine.
Over time problems could occur, it isnt guaranteed, and depends on use, oci's, engine condition and other factors.
The different specs have elements such as hths and saps which make a significant difference in how it works in and protects an engine, so some are outwardly similar, some are markedly different.
The hths isnt the be-all-and-end-all of oil, its one of many factors. Saps tend to be more important. People get wrapped-up in viscosity and misunderstand specs. The old grading system of xW xx is outdated but very hard to replace thus it remains, with the emphasis being on the spec required.
Its hard to portray things without speaking of the extreme to make it understandable. 👍

Last edited by AndyV7o; Jul 12th, 2018 at 12:30.
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Old Jul 12th, 2018, 12:37   #24
Laird Scooby
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I've obviously latched onto the worst case scenario.

I get what you're saying though, sometimes you have to use the extreme as an example and without going into shed-loads of theory so that the end result becomes easier to understand, you have to skip a stage or three.
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Old Jul 12th, 2018, 12:45   #25
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Exactly!
Oil is a complicated minefield. You can get to a stage where the more you know, the less you know, as it brings so many more questions and parameters involved!

Ive spent hours and hours over years reading this that and the other, laying awake at night mulling it over, cross referencing different things from different people to find the true middle ground, then when you think youve got it sonething else comes along to bu99er that up, its like snakes and ladders!
Theres still stuff I dunno, and grey areas, but without going to uni, getting degrees, and working for one of the big companies, its hard to progress further.
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Old Jul 12th, 2018, 13:40   #26
Brendan W
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I think it's called 'Confusion Marketing', the practice of addling consumers brains so that they end up making bad decisions.
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Old Jul 13th, 2018, 10:32   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheshired5 View Post
It made me laugh so don't feel bad..... I'm assuming that making me laugh was your intention?


Callous definition unkind, cruel, and without sympathy or feeling for other people:
Your description of me as callous sounds a little.... Erm what's the word? Oh yes. Callous.

Anyway, back to this gripping, enlightening and brand new oil discussion which is revealing all new information which the forum has never seen before.

I might start a rival thread called, "What colour are your tyres?"
Easily as useful.

In the beginning i thought you were only arrogant and hypocrite. But i always though you were and intelligent and an upright person, i was wrong.

So im sorry for what i said. Because after the way you answered is really not worth it .

Funny how OLD POSTS themes bring new things!!! But even that wasn't enough for you....By the way ...one of this days you might be talking about color of the tires...with so many different colors of coolant and hydraulic fluid ( if you dont understand this bit read old forums you are a clever guy you will find it), you had to try to stay up, no you came down like a rock.



But once again i want to apologize to you and to the forum.

But please, i know it will not enter on that head of yours. Please dont comment on my posts. Its a simple request.

Last edited by Anubisxc70; Jul 13th, 2018 at 11:02.
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Old Jul 13th, 2018, 11:28   #28
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Why is there a problem discussing an "old" thread, surely Everything that goes wrong or replacement etc has been posted before, so the forum may as well have NO new posts, it is already been sorted, this is how I read cheshire5 post, I still like to ask advice EVEN if it is "OLD" !! Maybe the heat is getting to the odd person !
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Old Jul 13th, 2018, 11:36   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubisxc70 View Post
SIMON..cheshired5 in the day you ask in a constructive way..it will be better than win the world cup THAT WE MIGHT WIN:::GO ENGLANDDDDD. Simon you have issues. You are good , but not that good. You need to learn being humble. You made me loose 5 min of my life to answer you. Please don ever answer to my posts. If you want to deal with volvo nasa do it , but for us mortals that make stupid questions is how we learn. Go play your guitar and leave the questions for us stupids, because if you see you never, never answered a direct question. For me you worth nothing you are always rude for the people that try solve their problems: I dont care how many times they ask i will try all i can to help them.you my friend...well you are not. You suck balls. You are a waste of time. If you know a bit more....teach dont critic in a destructive way...your opinion is the least i give value, because you are an arrogant man. So please make you videos and dont answer posts because you are tirrible. So got back to your oil water and guitar.

I feel so bad i wasted 5 minutes of my life to say something to somebody that will never learn

Cheshired5 is very direct and has a concise writing style. A few may misinterpret as being slightly rude. I prefer it - the Web has too many people posting long winded drivel.
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Old Jul 13th, 2018, 12:01   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2504s View Post
Cheshired5 is very direct and has a concise writing style. A few may misinterpret as being slightly rude. I prefer it - the Web has too many people posting long winded drivel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheshired5 View Post
If you know it's an old question, that means you've read the previous threads asking exactly the same question so why ask again?
Just contribute to one of those threads.
It wasn't even a direct answer, many may interpret it as heavily tinged with sarcasm, punctuated with "**** off and go and annoy the people on those other threads".

Yes, there are and always will be topics that come up regularly on any forum, whether it's oil, B200/230 vacuum leaks, auto box fluid changes or whatever else they may be.
Quite often the person asking the question has either read the threads in question and is still unsure and needs clarification or isn't au fait with the use of search and while recognising there have been many threads, can't find them all and certainly not the answer they need.

As such new threads will always come up seemingly covering old subjects, often new information comes to light on the newer threads as a result.

Why suppress all of this? A forum after all is a place for people to ask questions and get answers and unnecessary rudeness isn't helpful to anyone, least of all the person asking the question who may be new to the forum and/or Volvos in general.

I hope that wasn't too much long-winded drivel for you, i think it was economically explanatory but covering all salient points.
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