Any Advice?

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Again, my words are being altered! I said i had seen a B reg 760 Turbo. Check what years that applies to! You'll find it was 1984 and 1985.

Motronic as a stand-alone didn't come about until the early to mid 90s, not the 80s and the nechanical air flap flow meter was L-Jetronic, later versions were known as LE-Jetronic although i've never found the exact difference between the two.

Proper motronic controlled the idle speed with an AICV as used on LH systems rather than the AAV as used on L/LE-Jetronic. I also pointed out that Motronic was a complet stand-alone unit that coped with ignition as well as injection. Having a separate EZK or similar ignition unit does not consitute Motronic in my book.

However, as i originally pointed out, LH2.4 was often referred to as Motronic, as was the l-Jetronic - neither were IMHO as they weren't fully integrated untis with just one ECU for injection and ignition.
That's why the CTS uses two elements, one thermistor feeds the ignition ECU (EZK) and the other feeds the injection ECU - if they were integrated there would not be a need for twin sensors in one housing.

Hi Dave I seriously suggest you look at the Fuel system green book for 1982 the ECU has Motronic on it, volvo call it Motronic and it has a CIS valve in 1982 . I was there for the launch and did all the volvo training !

Please Think before you rabble on and on like an express train , no offence intended ..

"I've seen a B reg, 760 Turbo with a K-Jet B23ET - owned from new and never modified. " thats plain enough isnt it?🙄

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Clan

"I've seen a B reg, 760 Turbo with a K-Jet B23ET - owned from new and never modified. " thats plain enough isnt it?🙄

B was 1984/5 and NOT 1983, it was definitely a K-Jet B23 turbo. I remember it particularly as i was surprised it wasn't the V6 being a 760

The CIS as i recall was Constant Idle System, designed to keep the idel speed constant - done by altering injection periods to give more power to keep the idle speed the same if there was some drag such as the clutch being slipped to hold it on a hill.

As i've pointed out several times now, Motronic was used on many systems, the true Motronic with all ECUs integrated came much later.

Read back through your past several posts, you've contradicted yourself a few times!. I've maintaianed what i've said

[classicswede]

"Contrasting with the very spacious interior, the boot area is fairly limited both by the high floor, accommodating the spare wheel underneath, and by the gargantuan 82-Litre (18 gallon) fuel tank. There is, however, a door between the boot and the interior, normally concealed by the wide armrest„ so that skis can be carried inside. The latest in Bosch Motronic electronic injection systems keep control of the big four-cylinder engine, codenamed the B23ET unit. Long stroked at 96 mm, with an 80 mm bore, and with an unusually high compression ratio for a turbo of 9.0:1, the unit develops 173 bhp at 5,700 rpm, and 25.5 kpm of torque at 3,400 rpm. An alloy crossflow cylinder head is installed with a belt-driven single overhead camshaft, and the Garrett T03 turbocharger is adjusted to give useful assistance from 2,000 rpm upwards, with a maximum boost pressure of eight pounds."

Quote from https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...olvo-760-turbo

Note they have mixed the bore and stroke

[classicswede]

Both Nick and I who have been looking at volvo's daily for years have never seen a UK with K jetronic turbo. Had it been a 82/83 it could have possibly some kind of prototype but at 84 the ET was well established by them

The 740 and 760 Turbo ECU's very clearly say Motronic on them, are we now to take it that is wrong and Volvo had it wrong?
Even this ECU chart shows the ECU's as Motronic for the ET engines http://www.volvotips.com/index.php/7...ication-chart/


We can all remember things wrong, when you are not certain it is better to say iirc or I am fairly sure or something along those lines. There are times when there are details I had not been aware of before and some there is some evidence then the info goes into my memory bank

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by classicswede

Other than its a bit confusing all the above is wrong.

UK NEVER had any K jet turbo cars. The B23ET and B230ET with both Motronic (not LH) and used a mechanical flap air meter and no lambda. US Market and Euro market B21ET was K jet with Turbo.
B230FT B230FK and B230GT were LH2.4 closed loop lambda feedback electronic injection

Motronic and LH2.4 are very diffent systems with nothing in common other then being electronic injection

B200/230E engines were dropped 1990 with some cross over but easy to identify just by looking at the manifold. The LH2.4 engines are B200/230F
)

Originally Posted by classicswede

"The latest in Bosch Motronic electronic injection systems keep control of the big four-cylinder engine, codenamed the B23ET unit. Long stroked at 96 mm, with an 80 mm bore, and with an unusually high compression ratio for a turbo of 9.0:1, the unit develops 173 bhp at 5,700 rpm, and 25.5 kpm of torque at 3,400 rpm. An alloy crossflow cylinder head is installed with a belt-driven single overhead camshaft, and the Garrett T03 turbocharger is adjusted to give useful assistance from 2,000 rpm upwards, with a maximum boost pressure of eight pounds."

Quote from https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...olvo-760-turbo

Note they have mixed the bore and stroke

Originally Posted by classicswede

Both Nick and I who have been looking at volvo's daily for years have never seen a UK with K jetronic turbo. Had it been a 82/83 it could have possibly some kind of prototype but at 84 the ET was well established by them

The 740 and 760 Turbo ECU's very clearly say Motronic on them, are we now to take it that is wrong and Volvo had it wrong?
Even this ECU chart shows the ECU's as Motronic for the ET engines http://www.volvotips.com/index.php/7...ication-chart/


We can all remember things wrong, when you are not certain it is better to say iirc or I am fairly sure or something along those lines. There are times when there are details I had not been aware of before and some there is some evidence then the info goes into my memory bank

That's fine but which way do you want it? In your first post trying to shoot me down, you say the early systems were never Motronic, now you're saying they are? You CAN NOT have it both ways!

Now, FYI, Motronic was a FAMILY of electronic injection systems used by Bosch but the name "Motronic" was not generally released to the general public until about 1992 once it had filtered through the various channels, instead the L, Le Jetronic and LH-Jetronic were knownsimply as that, the full "Motronic" release of the name came when the units that comprised the system were integrated into one ECU. Digital Motor Electronics or Motronics for short was the way Bosch wanted it to be known publicly, therefore what i originally said about the LH system often referred to as being Motronic was indeed correct.

As you say, we all get things wrong from time to time and i'm going on what i've known, experienced and learned over the years. It could be that we are all correct in our own ways but i know what i saw on that B reg 760, nice gold one it was with nice alloys.
A previous boss had tried kidding me his Lancia Thema had a Ferrari engine in it, first clue was it was RHD, second clue was opening the bonnet to find a PRV V6 lurking there! Not a V8 Ferrari, 32 valve engine!

I'm perfectly happy to discuss it but at least please be consistent!

[classicswede]

No I clearly said never K jetronic
ET engines were Motronic and FT/FK and GT engines are lh2.4 there is nothing to really be confused about

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

B was 1984/5 and NOT 1983, it was definitely a K-Jet B23 turbo. I remember it particularly as i was surprised it wasn't the V6 being a 760

The CIS as i recall was Constant Idle System, designed to keep the idel speed constant - done by altering injection periods to give more power to keep the idle speed the same if there was some drag such as the clutch being slipped to hold it on a hill.

As i've pointed out several times now, Motronic was used on many systems, the true Motronic with all ECUs integrated came much later.

Read back through your past several posts, you've contradicted yourself a few times!. I've maintaianed what i've said

The CIS doesn't have anything to do with the injectors, where did you get that idea from ? it electrically controls a small additional air supply to bypass the throttle to maintain the engine idle speed if the load varies for any reason . This method was used on Volvos for the next 13 years until the electronic throttle was introduced .

Motronic was only used on the 760 Turbo version from 1982 due to its critical fueling requirements, the turbo control was not as tightly controlled as today's systems so they had to do the fine tuning on the ignition system (just like the 480 Turbo which came out a year later) . The digital system could be controlled to a finer degree than Jetronic it had knock sensor to control too It was a proper integrated ECU as we use today with MOTRONIC on it in black and silver .

What you saw in 1983 was a 1984 model year Launch 740 GLE with the B21E and no turbo ,that had K-Jetronic ... there were a great deal of those around in 1983 Gold , GLE , Big stainless steel wheel trims and a lot of the 760 trim . nice car with a crisp responsive engine .

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by classicswede

Other than its a bit confusing all the above is wrong.

UK NEVER had any K jet turbo cars. The B23ET and B230ET with both Motronic (not LH) and used a mechanical flap air meter and no lambda. US Market and Euro market B21ET was K jet with Turbo.
B230FT B230FK and B230GT were LH2.4 closed loop lambda feedback electronic injection

Motronic and LH2.4 are very diffent systems with nothing in common other then being electronic injection

B200/230E engines were dropped 1990 with some cross over but easy to identify just by looking at the manifold. The LH2.4 engines are B200/230F

B230K is carb (early are a normal engine and later Heron heads)

Originally Posted by classicswede

No I clearly said never K jetronic
ET engines were Motronic and FT/FK and GT engines are lh2.4 there is nothing to really be confused about

I ever said you did say K-jets were Motronic!

I'm referring to the L/LE and LH Jetronic which were all Motronic, the earliest of those that became known as a Motronic publicly (i.e. not just to the trade) was the LH2.4, hence my comment about it being referred to as Motronic.

As Clan says, they were all Motronic from the start or to give it the full name, Digital Motor Electronic which was shortened to Motronic. Many didn't bear the Motronic label, just LH/L or whatever, others did so i suspect a lot of it depended where they were made.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I ever said you did say K-jets were Motronic!

I'm referring to the L/LE and LH Jetronic which were all Motronic, the earliest of those that became known as a Motronic publicly (i.e. not just to the trade) was the LH2.4, hence my comment about it being referred to as Motronic.

As Clan says, they were all Motronic from the start or to give it the full name, Digital Motor Electronic which was shortened to Motronic. Many didn't bear the Motronic label, just LH/L or whatever, others did so i suspect a lot of it depended where they were made.

I've lost the plot now , i'm going to lay down 💤

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Clan

What you saw in 1983 was a 1984 model year Launch 740 GLE with the B21E and no turbo ,that had K-Jetronic ... there were a great deal of those around in 1983 Gold , GLE , Big stainless steel wheel trims and a lot of the 760 trim . nice car with a crisp responsive engine .

"What you saw in 1983 was a 1984 model year Launch 740 GLE"

Wrong!!!! I saw it in 1992. Who mentioned 1983???????

It was badged (and bought) as a 760 Turbo and it had K-Jet.

"Big stainless steel wheel trims "

Wrong again!!!!! They were FACTORY FIT ALLOYS!!!!!! The same alloys as on this 780 in fact :



"and a lot of the 760 trim ."

It had ALL the 760 trim because it WAS A 760, he opted for the velour rather than the leather though. He did tell me it was a special order and had to be collected from Volvo UK HQ, he told me where but i forget now.

In 1983, the new reg suffix then would have been Y or the new A prefix. Certainly not B which was Aug 1 1984 to 31st July 1985.

I know what i saw and when i saw it. If that doesn't tie up with your experiences and/or knowledge, i can't help that.

Also it's not like i only saw it once, i saw it almost every day at work.