SIPS - Which car would you rather be in?

T5R92011 · Jul 21st, 2018, 21:11

I'm sure many of you have seen this advert before, but for those of you that haven't it explains SIPS very well!

+ YouTube Video

What's interesting to note is that Elon Musk used the P3 Volvo S60 as a comparison to the Tesla Model 3's safety levels in the event of a side on crash. It seems Musk skips over mentioning Volvo's additional safety features.

Which car would you rather be in?

+ YouTube Video

Clan · Jul 21st, 2018, 21:52

I suppose you could say that the volvo decelerates with much less G Force due to more compression . The Tesla looks very hard and the G forces for the passenger would be much more .
Similar thing with the smart cars , the frame around the interior at the front hardly moves in a huge crash , it can't afford to due to the small space between the passengers and the front of the car , the G forces and seat belt forces are said to kill you … I guess volvo know what they are doing ...

owyn · Jul 22nd, 2018, 17:57

It looks like the Tesla's strength comes from its incredibly rigid floor with the battery in it.
Fair enough, makes for a rigid chassis but I think it's a happy accident rather than by design.
Whether the thing needs to be that rigid is another matter.

I-S · Jul 23rd, 2018, 10:07

The problem with this is that the vast majority of us are not experts in car crash testing. The video does not tell us that one car is clearly safer than another because we do not know the ins and outs.

What can we see from the video? The Tesla has less cabin intrusion, the Volvo has possibly gentler decelerations. Which is better? I do not know because I'm not an expert in the subject.

However, the underlying point is that modern cars are exceptionally safe and Volvo should take a lot of credit for that because they have always pushed that aspect and in doing so forced others to be better.

Ultimately either the S60 or the Tesla is a pretty safe place to be.

As for which I'd rather be in? The Tesla.

green van man · Jul 23rd, 2018, 16:56

Ex neighbour was a traffic cop, went to a fatal rtc in which the driver of a tee boned volvo died, not a mark on him.
Autopsy showed that the side force swung his heart within the chest cavity such that it ripped the aortic artery out and he bled to death internally in a very short time.

Which car would I rather be in, the one that avoids the accident.

Paul.

tofufi · Jul 23rd, 2018, 17:46

Interesting comparison, but without knowing more it's hard to comment.

The pole side impact test still isn't required in Europe, and while I don't specialise in US legislation I think it's one of the most recent FMVSS tests (for USA). We don't know if both cars are US specification.

If a car is designed with a test in mind, it's far more likely to do well...

Watch the 2014 Lincoln MKS here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVp1S_0SOes

on a small overlap test - a very recent introduction.

Since that test was introduced, Lincoln replaced the MKS with the Continental:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMc4NERWChc

Big difference

Notice on the MKS how the door structure is deformed severely, whereas on the Continental it stays fairly rigid and deflects the energy away from the passenger compartment. You'll also notice how the dummy's head misses the airbag and hits the dashboard in the MKS, but in the Continental the airbag has been altered and performs much better.

Without knowing the details of the cars tested, it's not necessarily fair to say it's a good comparison.

At a crash test seminar a while ago, we were shown the small overlap tests above on two identical looking cars, one of which had been redesigned to perform well in the test. From the outside, they looked the same, but in the crash they reacted differently as the redesign had occurred under the skin.

Also, more intrusion isn't always a bad thing - up to a point.

tofufi · Jul 23rd, 2018, 17:56

And for anyone interested, a couple more videos to illustrate the point that not all cars are equal despite looking the same...

Latin America spec Kia Rio...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rCfqTjLyUg

Euro spec Kia Rio...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLAJLlgt6Kc

At a minimum, the Euro spec one has airbags, which is a nice start

Jul 21st, 2018, 21:52	#2
Clan Experienced Member Last Online: Today 14:22 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: L/H side	I suppose you could say that the volvo decelerates with much less G Force due to more compression . The Tesla looks very hard and the G forces for the passenger would be much more . Similar thing with the smart cars , the frame around the interior at the front hardly moves in a huge crash , it can't afford to due to the small space between the passengers and the front of the car , the G forces and seat belt forces are said to kill you … I guess volvo know what they are doing ... __________________ My comments are only based on my opinions and vast experience .

Jul 22nd, 2018, 17:57	#3
owyn Premier Member Last Online: Feb 9th, 2020 20:04 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Doncaster	It looks like the Tesla's strength comes from its incredibly rigid floor with the battery in it. Fair enough, makes for a rigid chassis but I think it's a happy accident rather than by design. Whether the thing needs to be that rigid is another matter. __________________ ex police V70 T5 '53' loadsa miles! Now gone ex police V70 T5 '07'. Now gone I have now left the stable and have an Audi

Jul 23rd, 2018, 10:07	#4
I-S Premier Member Last Online: Jul 22nd, 2021 23:43 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Huddersfield	The problem with this is that the vast majority of us are not experts in car crash testing. The video does not tell us that one car is clearly safer than another because we do not know the ins and outs. What can we see from the video? The Tesla has less cabin intrusion, the Volvo has possibly gentler decelerations. Which is better? I do not know because I'm not an expert in the subject. However, the underlying point is that modern cars are exceptionally safe and Volvo should take a lot of credit for that because they have always pushed that aspect and in doing so forced others to be better. Ultimately either the S60 or the Tesla is a pretty safe place to be. As for which I'd rather be in? The Tesla. __________________ Our Car 2011 V70 D5 Geartronic Polestar - 38.6mpg over 45524 miles Replaced by

Jul 23rd, 2018, 17:46	#6
tofufi Premier Member Last Online: Today 14:43 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bristol	Interesting comparison, but without knowing more it's hard to comment. The pole side impact test still isn't required in Europe, and while I don't specialise in US legislation I think it's one of the most recent FMVSS tests (for USA). We don't know if both cars are US specification. If a car is designed with a test in mind, it's far more likely to do well... Watch the 2014 Lincoln MKS here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVp1S_0SOes on a small overlap test - a very recent introduction. Since that test was introduced, Lincoln replaced the MKS with the Continental: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMc4NERWChc Big difference Notice on the MKS how the door structure is deformed severely, whereas on the Continental it stays fairly rigid and deflects the energy away from the passenger compartment. You'll also notice how the dummy's head misses the airbag and hits the dashboard in the MKS, but in the Continental the airbag has been altered and performs much better. Without knowing the details of the cars tested, it's not necessarily fair to say it's a good comparison. At a crash test seminar a while ago, we were shown the small overlap tests above on two identical looking cars, one of which had been redesigned to perform well in the test. From the outside, they looked the same, but in the crash they reacted differently as the redesign had occurred under the skin. Also, more intrusion isn't always a bad thing - up to a point. Last edited by tofufi; Jul 23rd, 2018 at 17:50.

Jul 23rd, 2018, 16:56	#5
green van man Premier Member Last Online: Apr 11th, 2024 09:21 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ffos y Ffin	Ex neighbour was a traffic cop, went to a fatal rtc in which the driver of a tee boned volvo died, not a mark on him. Autopsy showed that the side force swung his heart within the chest cavity such that it ripped the aortic artery out and he bled to death internally in a very short time. Which car would I rather be in, the one that avoids the accident. Paul.

Jul 23rd, 2018, 17:56	#7
tofufi Premier Member Last Online: Today 14:43 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bristol	And for anyone interested, a couple more videos to illustrate the point that not all cars are equal despite looking the same... Latin America spec Kia Rio... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rCfqTjLyUg Euro spec Kia Rio... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLAJLlgt6Kc At a minimum, the Euro spec one has airbags, which is a nice start

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