240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Nicely finished off Alan! Certainly at first glance you'd never know!

How did you get on with the joddler?

The joddler is pretty useful. It also works as a hole punch - I was thinking that if I had to replace a larger piece I'd use it to make plug welds, that would look like spot welds to the casual observer.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

The joddler is pretty useful. It also works as a hole punch - I was thinking that if I had to replace a larger piece I'd use it to make plug welds, that would look like spot welds to the casual observer.

Alan

I was under the impression that was the thinking behind the hole punch in it but always slightly confused by it too. The primary use (as fas i always knew) was for making repair panels, most of which would have to be seam welded for MoT purposes.

Of course it could be used for a complete new sill to replicate the spot welds originally used and likewise for similar panels.

What about the pressure needed to operate the tool? Is it fairly easy in terms of effort so that if making a longer panel, you wouldn't be suffering cramp three hours after using it?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I was under the impression that was the thinking behind the hole punch in it but always slightly confused by it too. The primary use (as fas i always knew) was for making repair panels, most of which would have to be seam welded for MoT purposes.

Of course it could be used for a complete new sill to replicate the spot welds originally used and likewise for similar panels.

What about the pressure needed to operate the tool? Is it fairly easy in terms of effort so that if making a longer panel, you wouldn't be suffering cramp three hours after using it?

Dave,

I was thinking specifically that if I had to replace the rear wheel arch inner and outer with pressed repair panels in 5-10 years time I could joddle the edge under the existing panel back to a cut line, then punch and plug weld it so it looked like a spot welded seam - but of course I'd be able to do all the work from the outside (unlike with a real spot welder). I could also plug weld the two layers together along the wheel arch lip so it looked like the spot welded item from the factory. None of the metal there is structural, it just keeps the weather out, so I don't think that would be an issue for the MoT (even if the RB was liable for a MoT test) - and I think would be a neat and strong way of doing the work.

Maybe I'll never need to do this anyway if my patches have been effective (we'll find out in a few years), I'm just thinking ahead and making a contingency plan in my head.

You are right about replacing a sill panel - plug welds would be a really neat way of achieving the right effect.

Depending on the sheet thickness the joddler does need a pretty firm grip to create the seam or punch a hole. If one was going to do a long seam (like perhaps a whole sill) it might be better to get a pneumatic joddler tool. Fot the small patch I used on the outside (about 2.5"x1" I should think) it worked fine.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

All useful info there Alan, thanks!

Just an idea for the joddler, not having seen it but an old dodge used by sheet-metal workers rearranged for joddling. Couple of lengths of heavy duty tubing, one over the "fixed handle, the other over the "moving" handle of the joddler. Put the fixed one in a vice (or securely fixed Workmate) and then use the extra leverage to use the joddler easily without having to develop a grip like a miser on a fiver.
Should make life much easier! Especially for the hole punch function!

Sorry for the delay in replying, been sat in the shed flying the lathe to start producing a set of 6 LPG injection nozzle adaptors for my beast! Got to take it a bit easy as the lathe is 77 years old with a few foibles of its own!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

All useful info there Alan, thanks!

Just an idea for the joddler, not having seen it but an old dodge used by sheet-metal workers rearranged for joddling. Couple of lengths of heavy duty tubing, one over the "fixed handle, the other over the "moving" handle of the joddler. Put the fixed one in a vice (or securely fixed Workmate) and then use the extra leverage to use the joddler easily without having to develop a grip like a miser on a fiver.
Should make life much easier! Especially for the hole punch function!

Sorry for the delay in replying, been sat in the shed flying the lathe to start producing a set of 6 LPG injection nozzle adaptors for my beast! Got to take it a bit easy as the lathe is 77 years old with a few foibles of its own!

I see your point about extending the handles to give a greater mechanical advantage for the joddler, but I think one might end up with something unwieldy I’ll take a photo tomorrow to show you what I mean. I think a pneumatic version like this:

http://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324273927381

For about £30 would be a better bet for frequent use.

Will you be converting your motor to LPG, or repairing a current installation (I don’t recall it being LPG previously)? Well done with the lathe, I don’t think I’d be able to remember how to use one these days.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I see your point about extending the handles to give a greater mechanical advantage for the joddler, but I think one might end up with something unwieldy I’ll take a photo tomorrow to show you what I mean. I think a pneumatic version like this:

http://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324273927381

For about £30 would be a better bet for frequent use.

Will you be converting your motor to LPG, or repairing a current installation (I don’t recall it being LPG previously)? Well done with the lathe, I don’t think I’d be able to remember how to use one these days.

Alan

Even without seeing what you mean with longer handles i can see the obvious advatage in this idea Alan :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Air-Punch...g/324273927381

For some reason your link is a bit corrupted, kept taking me to some home website? Found the ebay item number on the end and copied it then searched for that instead as above.

Would be even easier to use if it could be operated by a foot pedal so both paws were free to ensure the panel didn't go out of line.

Yes, i'm converting to LPG, i planned on doing that for a long time and it seems like it's taken longer to actually get round to doing it. I much prefer the idea of 50-60p/L to 129p/L!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Even without seeing what you mean with longer handles i can see the obvious advatage in this idea Alan :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Air-Punch...g/324273927381

For some reason your link is a bit corrupted, kept taking me to some home website? Found the ebay item number on the end and copied it then searched for that instead as above.

Would be even easier to use if it could be operated by a foot pedal so both paws were free to ensure the panel didn't go out of line.

Yes, i'm converting to LPG, i planned on doing that for a long time and it seems like it's taken longer to actually get round to doing it. I much prefer the idea of 50-60p/L to 129p/L!

Good morn Dave,

Thank you for sorting out that link - I don't know what went wrong there.

The LPG project is really interesting. I'd always assumed the work would have to be done by some sort of qualified gas person (like Corgi with domestic supplies), so this is fascinating.

What would be the project cost? Would it work with a carburettor engine (such as a B21a - just as an example - you can probably guess what I'm thinking).

The cost difference does make it an attractive option, and LPG has remained sufficiently non-mainstream for governments not to bother taxing it much (I think that will continue). How long do you think the project will take? Will DVLA get fussed about it (I'm thinking about the 'no substantial modification' clause in the historic vehicle registration)?

Excellent, I'm really looking forward to hearing about this one.

Alan

[Dippydog]

LS I take it that at 129/L you're talking about the "Super Unleaded"type stuff? Even so the dearer stations round here are at about 113/114p/L for the ordinary stuff so at 129/L you're still talking 15/16p/L extra so you're getting on for 70p per gallon more!
Othen the last I knew[although I've never owned an LPG car]you can in fact on some cars at least get a £10 per year reduction in the VED. and you can indeed convert a carburettor car to LPG and I believe it costs less than doing a fuel injected one.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Good morn Dave,

Thank you for sorting out that link - I don't know what went wrong there.

The LPG project is really interesting. I'd always assumed the work would have to be done by some sort of qualified gas person (like Corgi with domestic supplies), so this is fascinating.

What would be the project cost? Would it work with a carburettor engine (such as a B21a - just as an example - you can probably guess what I'm thinking).

The cost difference does make it an attractive option, and LPG has remained sufficiently non-mainstream for governments not to bother taxing it much (I think that will continue). How long do you think the project will take? Will DVLA get fussed about it (I'm thinking about the 'no substantial modification' clause in the historic vehicle registration)?

Excellent, I'm really looking forward to hearing about this one.

Alan

The COP-II regs state a "competent person" should do the installation Alan. The COP-II regs state about 90% of how to do it, add in 10% common sense and you're pretty much there.
No idea how long it's going to take, my Coupe took about 3 weeks but that was a basic mixer system that you could use on yours, albeit with slightly different components. All in, i think it's going to cost me about £300 with the tank, ECU/loom, reducer (as distinct from a vapouriser that i used on my Coupe and you would use on yours), pipework and other associated sundries. That's mainly using secondhand kit but some parts are new, the pipework to/from the tank, filler etc.

However, because yours is a single carb, you could go new for a similar amount :

https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-ki...e-carburettor/

Obviously you'd need the tank and filler as well and a mixer between the air filter and carb. I seem to recall you're thinking of the twin choke Weber conversion - that's easier to find a mixer for than the Pierburg carb you have.

https://tinleytech.co.uk/product-cat...ction-systems/

There are other suppliers but Tinley isn't far from you and they are very helpful, even if you phone them up on the off-chance. Given the minimal cost of a new front end kit for yours and some parts you'll have to buy new anyway (e.g. mixer), i'd suggest you may as well go for a new set up and a bit of a project for you. If you can find some secondhand kit you may be able to pick up a bargain.

This explains a bit more, primarily intended for the older Amazon Volvos, a lot of it is still relevant but there are certain things "lost in translation".

https://www.scandcar.com/lpg-in-volvo/

Gives you some food for thought though! It's also a "period modification" so i seriously doubt any problems with the DVLA, after all it's a conversion to dual-fuel, not entirely changing the fuel. You still need to start on petrol and run on it until the engine has warmed up a bit, usually about a mile tops.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

LS I take it that at 129/L you're talking about the "Super Unleaded"type stuff? Even so the dearer stations round here are at about 113/114p/L for the ordinary stuff so at 129/L you're still talking 15/16p/L extra so you're getting on for 70p per gallon more!
Othen the last I knew[although I've never owned an LPG car]you can in fact on some cars at least get a £10 per year reduction in the VED. and you can indeed convert a carburettor car to LPG and I believe it costs less than doing a fuel injected one.

Thanks, i missed that - 124.9p/L was the price i paid the other day. Generally it is nearer to 129.9p/L round here though and about 121.9p/L for the low octane unleaded. My 760 will allegedly run on that stuff, as will my 827 but on both cars, i get a significantly better fuel economy on Super than i do on normal and the increase in economy more than offsets the slight extra cost. The extra cost is ~7-8%, the fuel economy increase is 15-30% depending on use/journeys but either way a no-brainer, the Super unleaded is cheaper in the long run. It's also better for the engines.

I believe they've stopped the VED reduction and that was only available on new (or near-new) cars when converted below a certain age. It won't make any difference to Alan come April as he will be getting a huge reduction in VED - everyones favourite price - FREE!!!

See my links on the bits needed to convert his B21A, not exhaustive and there are several bits i haven't listed but those are general bits and would be needed whether injection or carb. Then if you feel like it, compare the cost of similar bits for converting EFi cars.

Thinking about it i don't think i included a vapouriser in the list so may have to revisit that later.