Andrew Bangham - 1mph Over the Speed Limit - Prosecution

[Ninja59]

No doubt many have been aware of Mr Bangham's presentation and comments in the previous days of prosecuting "criminals" for going 1mph over the speed limit.

Beyond being technically impossible, how does everyone feel about it?

In one sense I do support the police, but enforcing and prosecuting people for going 1mph over the speed limit is a little drastic. This is considering there are so many police shortages and so many other criminal issues it does just come across as being self interested and "easy" to target unlike other driver educational issues (like tailgating going on).

Furthermore, even if you are happy with the above. Do you believe a serving officer should be a trustee of a Road Safety "Charity" (The Road Safety Trust) that has a sub company (UKROEd) offering speed awareness courses that had an income of over £50 million last year?

[Grimble]

Catching speeding is an easy 'crime' to solve, uses minimal resources and brings in a handy income for the mostly retired police officers that run the 'awareness' courses.

Catching drink/drug driving, dangerous driving, no insurance/no licence or banned, dangerous vehicle etc, well that requires a bit of effort.

As the majority of accidents happen in urban areas at 30mph or so, then barring the thankfully few nutters that race around built up areas, travelling above the speed limit is not in the same league as those mentioned above.

There are some that will never be satisfied until we are back to the days of the man with the red flag out in front.

[john.wigley]

A proposal by Home Office Minister, Bob Ainsworth, could mean much higher penalties for the smallest infringement of the prevailing speed limit if adopted.

There would be no tolerance. 31 MPH in a 30 limit could, according to Radio 4, result in a fine, points and ultimately, in the event of 'totting up' points, disqualification. It was argued that those who routinely speed regard the current penalties or 'speed awareness' courses as insufficient deterrent to encourage them to stop doing so.

I try not to speed, but occasionally I glance down to see that my speed has crept up to perhaps 32 or 33 MPH, and immediately back off to the limit.

Even when driving at the limit, some following drivers become impatient and pass at the first opportunity. This can only exacerbate the problem as some drivers slow to below the limit so as to be sure not to inadvertently exceed it.

On a practical note, are speedometers that accurate? Modern ones, perhaps, but what of older cars? I can drive at an indicated 30 in a nearby village and the road side sign indicates that I an doing 28. What about the effect of tyre wear? As the tyre wears, so the rolling diameter of the wheel decreases, meaning more revolutions per mile. Does this reflect in the speedometer reading?

In my view, this is either a misguided attempt in using a very big sledgehammer to crack a very small nut, or a blatant one to obtain still more revenue from the motorist.

Regards, John.

[canis]

I think it's about time. Breaking the speed limit has become astonishingly trivialised. Compare with the change in attitude to drink-driving over the last thirty years.

I still think the best way to tackle a speeder is the "make them get out and walk" method. A fine (maybe), months after the fact (certainly), is no deterrant at all.

I also think any campaign against humps, cameras, halting the encroachment of ever-decreasing limits, the desire for higher motorway speeds, and a general slide back to the man-with-a-red-flag, can only be effectively made when every motorist isn't breaking every limit on every journey.

[Ninja59]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

A proposal by Home Office Minister, Bob Ainsworth, could mean much higher penalties for the smallest infringement of the prevailing speed limit if adopted.

There would be no tolerance. 31 MPH in a 30 limit could, according to Radio 4, result in a fine, points and ultimately, in the event of 'totting up' points, disqualification. It was argued that those who routinely speed regard the current penalties or 'speed awareness' courses as insufficient deterrent to encourage them to stop doing so.

I try not to speed, but occasionally I glance down to see that my speed has crept up to perhaps 32 or 33 MPH, and immediately back off to the limit.

Even when driving at the limit, some following drivers become impatient and pass at the first opportunity. This can only exacerbate the problem as some drivers slow to below the limit so as to be sure not to inadvertently exceed it.

On a practical note, are speedometers that accurate? Modern ones, perhaps, but what of older cars? I can drive at an indicated 30 in a nearby village and the road side sign indicates that I an doing 28. What about the effect of tyre wear? As the tyre wears, so the rolling diameter of the wheel decreases, meaning more revolutions per mile. Does this reflect in the speedometer reading?

In my view, this is either a misguided attempt in using a very big sledgehammer to crack a very small nut, or a blatant one to obtain still more revenue from the motorist.

Regards, John.

They are all set to of a max of 10% above actual speed. Many modern cars actually (at least mine) has two speeds. One is defined as the real speed, the other the indicated speed (which provides a small correction factor).

But like you say there is no test for the calibration during the service life of a vehicle at all (unless obviously it is very wrong!).

Originally Posted by canis

I think it's about time. Breaking the speed limit has become astonishingly trivialised. Compare with the change in attitude to drink-driving over the last thirty years.

I still think the best way to tackle a speeder is the "make them get out and walk" method. A fine (maybe), months after the fact (certainly), is no deterrant at all.

Trivial, I agree in some regards, but enforcing the limit (if possible - which it at best is not) to 1 mph?

Furthermore, what about the wider issues of driving such as tailgating and people not driving to the relevant conditions.

For example I saw people technically speaking within the 70 mph speed limit. What I am not saying from that example is the fact that traffic was heavy, rush hour, dark, heavy rain and wind with a number in the outside lane of the motorway half a car length from the vehicle in front.

Now from a pure speed perspective they probably might consider that fine. The rest of us with a brain being utilised would realise that is just dumb and nothing more. But of course from Mr Bangham's example that appears fine?...

[Grimble]

Its all about appropriate speed when it comes to safety.

60 in a howling storm on a motorway with spray everywhere might be unsafe, 80 on a dry day with light traffic, quite safe.

Arbitrary limits, especially when set 50 odd years ago based on 60 year old vehicle technology are always likely to be contentious and especially so when all you ever hear from the various self-appointed do-gooders is speed is the root of all evil. Not the drunks, not the dangerous, not the uninsured, not the unlicensed, not the idiot pedestrian that steps out etc etc.

Funny how the fastest roads in the country are statistically (not my opinion but an actual, provable fact) the safest.

[NigelDay]

Not so long ago there was talk of the motorway speed limits being INCREASED to 80mph. Now it seems we are destined to have 70mph enforced rigidly. This seems a little short-sighted. In Germany they have a system on some roads where there is a 130kph (81mph) limit during busy periods. So, for example 0700h to 1900h (it might be a little different) you obey the limit. Outside these times, there is no limit. I'm not advocating a 'no limit' in the UK, but a similar policy would enable those of us who drive on deserted motorways in the late evening to do a little more than a (very tedious) 70mph without the risk of prosecution. As others have stated elsewhere, driving 'too slow' can induce tiredness through monotony. Certainly on smooth sections of the M6 in Cumbria, 70mph seems almost pedestrian.

One option therefore could be to increase the motorway limit to 80mph BUT to enforce it strictly. This is actually similar to many European limits.

[The Thong]

And today the Speed Camera vans were out in force.... Yesterday was a call to arms for the traffic Plod. I’ve gotten tired of these Police Chiefs pontificating about their war on the motorists etc etc. Not so long ago the Welsh Police Chief was declaring war on the motorist, then it was the Bedfordshire Chief threatening to use the motorist as a way of raising revenue to plug the shortfall on government cuts.
It’s laziness, they’re missing the point all together. Undertaking, tailgating is the worst I’ve ever seen it on today’s Motorways. If we had a more visible police force on our Motorways instead of the plastic police force (traffic officers) then more drivers might take more notice. Do you have any idea how many vans I see towing compressors or mini diggers on trailers with no lighting or number plates etc etc but Speeding seems to be the focus, it makes my blood boil.

[rippedoffagain]

All this against a backdrop of recent news revelations that our trustworthy police have been caught out withholding evidence from the defence in many, many cases. Some people have already served time in jail for offences they not only did not commit, but for which the actual coppers that pushed for prosecution had compelling evidence in their possession that proved the innocence of the accused.

But specifically in relation to the speeding issue, how can they be sure to that kind of accuracy?

[AndyJudge]

Originally Posted by The Thong

And today the Speed Camera vans were out in force.... Yesterday was a call to arms for the traffic Plod. I’ve gotten tired of these Police Chiefs pontificating about their war on the motorists etc etc. Not so long ago the Welsh Police Chief was declaring war on the motorist, then it was the Bedfordshire Chief threatening to use the motorist as a way of raising revenue to plug the shortfall on government cuts.
It’s laziness, they’re missing the point all together. Undertaking, tailgating is the worst I’ve ever seen it on today’s Motorways. If we had a more visible police force on our Motorways instead of the plastic police force (traffic officers) then more drivers might take more notice. Do you have any idea how many vans I see towing compressors or mini diggers on trailers with no lighting or number plates etc etc but Speeding seems to be the focus, it makes my blood boil.

Agree wholeheartedly with this, catching speeders is easy money, having a van parked on a bridge on a fast stretch of road is a licence to print money. It costs far more to have actual officers on the ground enforcing the other multitude of traffic laws that seem to be on the whole ignored.

Yes inappropriate speed kills but....

Drunk Driving Kills - Fact
Driving while using a phone kills - Fact
Driving without actually having a licence kills - Fact
Driving at night on just DRL's on the front - Maybe hasn't killed yet but got to happen soon
Tailgating Kills - Fact

Need I go on, but as stated to enforce these needs manpower which costs more than a man in a camera van, or a yellow box.