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Volvo SPA2 plans vs BMW vision for the future (CEO resigns)

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Old Jul 10th, 2019, 11:31   #1
jonnyu
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Default Volvo SPA2 plans vs BMW vision for the future (CEO resigns)

From the latest developments that dated back to 2018, Volvo has strong partners engaged on the development of the SPA2 platform:
-LG Chem and CATL are the new partners supplying batteries
-They will electrify all their range starting in 2019
-Nvidia is the technological partner for the autonomous driving level 4, possibly leading to Volvo being the first production car with level 4 autonomous driving in the market
-Google is being another technological partner for their future infotainment system.

In terms of security and technology, Volvo presents a solid strategy and may become the world's first in may aspects.

However, this has not been the case for BMW.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/9/20...-specs-release

BMW has failed to bring to the market proper strategy or solutions for the upcoming electric revolution. In fact this is one of the main reasons why Krueger resigned. Quoting the article: "He delayed BMW’s first long-range EV, which reportedly led to an exodus of talent in that field. Sales of the i3 stumbled. He also doubled down on internal combustion engine cars at a time when European countries moved to restrict or outright ban them, especially diesels. Amid all of this, the company still lost market share to rivals like Daimler, which owns Mercedes-Benz."

Even if BMW starts right now to define a strategy for the future, it comes 2 years too late. I'm sure that with their economic power they will be able to turn it around but still not sure how they will stand against Audi, Volvo and Mercedes in these following transition years.

Sales from BMW are already tumbling and they have been for a few months. I remember when I wanted to buy my car that I could get a 30% discount from a brand new BMW, the highest discount from all the available brands (Mercedes 15%, Audi 20%, Volvo 18%,...).

So what is your opinion regarding brands like BMW and their future strategy against Volvo?
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Old Jul 10th, 2019, 16:49   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyu View Post
From the latest developments that dated back to 2018, Volvo has strong partners engaged on the development of the SPA2 platform:
-LG Chem and CATL are the new partners supplying batteries
-They will electrify all their range starting in 2019
-Nvidia is the technological partner for the autonomous driving level 4, possibly leading to Volvo being the first production car with level 4 autonomous driving in the market
-Google is being another technological partner for their future infotainment system.

In terms of security and technology, Volvo presents a solid strategy and may become the world's first in may aspects.

However, this has not been the case for BMW.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/9/20...-specs-release

BMW has failed to bring to the market proper strategy or solutions for the upcoming electric revolution. In fact this is one of the main reasons why Krueger resigned. Quoting the article: "He delayed BMW’s first long-range EV, which reportedly led to an exodus of talent in that field. Sales of the i3 stumbled. He also doubled down on internal combustion engine cars at a time when European countries moved to restrict or outright ban them, especially diesels. Amid all of this, the company still lost market share to rivals like Daimler, which owns Mercedes-Benz."

Even if BMW starts right now to define a strategy for the future, it comes 2 years too late. I'm sure that with their economic power they will be able to turn it around but still not sure how they will stand against Audi, Volvo and Mercedes in these following transition years.

Sales from BMW are already tumbling and they have been for a few months. I remember when I wanted to buy my car that I could get a 30% discount from a brand new BMW, the highest discount from all the available brands (Mercedes 15%, Audi 20%, Volvo 18%,...).

So what is your opinion regarding brands like BMW and their future strategy against Volvo?

Interesting, especially considering the BIK rates for company car drivers in 2020/21 on hybrids and EV's.

Although I still think that these types of vehicles are just moving CO2 output further along 'the chain' so to speak. There was an article in Autocar a few days ago, https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...drop-half-june, that suggests that consumer confidence in PHEV's isn't as strong as it was with the full grant in place but should return once the British government finally puts together a cohesive plan on the future of transportation in the UK. Last month we bought a diesel XC60 as we feel it is the most viable, for us, ICE.
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Old Jul 12th, 2019, 17:26   #3
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Interesting, especially considering the BIK rates for company car drivers in 2020/21 on hybrids and EV's.

Although I still think that these types of vehicles are just moving CO2 output further along 'the chain' so to speak. There was an article in Autocar a few days ago, https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...drop-half-june, that suggests that consumer confidence in PHEV's isn't as strong as it was with the full grant in place but should return once the British government finally puts together a cohesive plan on the future of transportation in the UK. Last month we bought a diesel XC60 as we feel it is the most viable, for us, ICE.
I tthink the salient point in your response is when you mention the Government putting together a cohesive plan (which people believe will be carried through) for the future of electric cars. Everything we have seen and heard so far has failed to convince me that they have a clue as to their direction of travel. Consequently I too bought another derv muncher last year.
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Old Jul 12th, 2019, 19:16   #4
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I think the salient point in your response is when you mention the Government putting together a cohesive plan (which people believe will be carried through) for the future of electric cars. Everything we have seen and heard so far has failed to convince me that they have a clue as to their direction of travel. Consequently I too bought another derv muncher last year.
As I have said before, unless there is a very significant increase in electric generation using nuclear, we haven't a hope of being all electric.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2019, 15:55   #5
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Volvo plans to release a larger XC90 called XC100.
Using the CMA platform, they also intend to debut the XC20.

More smaller models could be introduced since Geely now owns a 50% stake in Mercedes-Benz founded Smart since March.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2019, 16:24   #6
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It might be interesting to see how the manufactures are doing ....
volvo have been on the up for the last 5 years ...and are the biggest growing prestige car maker in the UK if not the world ..
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Old Sep 2nd, 2019, 19:08   #7
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Bmw has been right. They were the first to bring a viable product the i3 and then waited to see if it would make sense to produce full blown full size BEV.

Yes VW, MB have blinked and made full blown BEVs under pressure from narrative chasing analysts hoping to get valuations multiples like Tesla which is just full of hot air.
Those are massively overweight cars that don’t handle well and give range anxiety on any long trip. Once novelty wears off people will not want them. Who wants to worry about charging for the last 70 miles of their 300 mile range then to arrive to charging station and find themselves in a 40min queue or go elsewhere because charger is broken.
EVs are town (if you have a charger) and commute vehicles only for short trips.

Mild hybrid with minimal weight penalty is the only thing that makes sense or an i3 or performance toy like an i8.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2019, 09:55   #8
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Bmw has been right. They were the first to bring a viable product the i3 and then waited to see if it would make sense to produce full blown full size BEV.
That may be true but the BMW from the i3 debut age is not the same BMW of today.
Today, with the new upcoming Mini, they want about 35k for a car with 146 miles of range, built on old i3 tech...
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Old Sep 3rd, 2019, 10:45   #9
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What is “new tech”? Same inefficient lithium batteries but more of them, which with decent range turn a car into a whale. They are recognising pushing range higher will not solve range anxiety problem nor will it make it a distance car for any sensible person. So they are making a mini that will still be a good car to drive.
Until much higher density batteries are around and the charge tech is sub 5min for 150+ miles or one can swap batteries the electric cars are a niche product that are a pain for long distance applications and are only enjoyable in straight line. Yes people are buying them because of the incentives just like they were buying diesels for the wrong reasons, but that doesn’t make them any better. I have a feeling that current crop of slow charging heavy electric will devalue heavily in 5-6 years and will need expensive upgrades of the charging system
Or even batteries.
And interestingly the “old tech” i3 allows me to go pay bmw 8k and upgrade my battery to the latest generation and double the range. It’s a waste of money for my application (I don’t even have to charge mine every day for what I need and it is always full overnight even on plug charger) but I am not sure how many other BEVs are designed with that in mind.
Bmw are right to make just enough electric not to be irrelevant but to focus on combustion and making good to drive cars now.
Petrol bmw estate is the top of my want list if I were to replace my xc90 now. If I needed a BEV (those are only good for commute or run around) there is still nothing better than i3.
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Old Sep 3rd, 2019, 12:38   #10
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What is “new tech”? Same inefficient lithium batteries but more of them, which with decent range turn a car into a whale.
So according to you, the additional 39 cm of the Tesla model 3 comparing it to the Mini Cooper are responsible for the additional 100 to 150 additional miles of range?
wow
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