Order now or wait for Mild Hybrid?

[Deman77]

Originally Posted by jonnyu

If you read the full response and the topic this was never a discussion between D5 or T5 but a discussion between getting a B5 or T5, where the B5 is not confirmed for the XC60 if it's going to be a diesel or petrol engine.

So this info you gave did not add value to the discussion.

B4 and B5 are diesels.

[Sandj]

Thank you all for your replies very helpful.

@Denman77 I've read reports that there will be petrol mild hybrids as well for the xc60, are you sure this is correct? If it is then we will definitely go for the t5 as we loved the quietness of the car.

Also to our knowledge this is new technology, the petrol is tried and tested, unlike the new rav4 which we tried but it sounded like a tractor! The xc60 is streets ahead for not a lot more money.

Of course leasing would be an option but there are good deals available on the xc60 and we will keep it for at least 5 years.

[Quacker]

Originally Posted by Deman77

Just to clarify. In the conditions where t5 gets 20, d5 will not go past 25.
Research consumption - it’s been widely covered in past threads - let’s not argue here.
My D5 improved noticeably after 15k but if you are low mileage it will take a while to get there.

Depreciation is your biggest cost by far unless you are 30k miles per annum. So if you are paying 500 a month in depreciation ask yourself should you worry about 20quid fuel saving or getting the car that suits you best and is not compromised.

I've never ever had less than 30mpg on my D5 XC90. While it may sound like a tractor form the outside, behind it, inside has no appreciable engine noise at all. It is very refined.
Even on short journeys of seven miles or so, it averages 34mpg and my total average is 38mpg with very fast motorway trips averaging 39mpg. Anything over 30 miles distance driven sensibly gets 40+mpg.

You must really hammer your car to get it down to 25mpg under any normal circumstances. Or you are using trip meter readings for trips of two miles or less, which is quite misleading.

[RobQuads]

Originally Posted by Deman77

B4 and B5 are diesels.

Not on the XC60 - `On the XC60, customers will be able to choose between a B5 mild hybrid petrol or diesel variant,` - https://www.media.volvocars.com/glob...id-powertrains

[Quacker]

The mild hybrid is just an electric motor/generator that is fitted to the transmission and charges during braking and down steep hills and assists the engine somewhat on the flat. The battery is small and it hardly gives any electric/only propulsion and has a relatively tiny power output anyhow. During medium to long distance travel it should enable between a 10 and 15% better fuel economy than otherwise. So around town a 25mpg standard car's consumption may, if the conditions are right for regeneration, give a 10% increase to 27.5mpg. Higher speed over undulating roads may give a best of 15% increase. So from 30mpg up to a best of 34.5mpg.

More significant perhaps is the paper lowering of CO2 emissions which effect the tax situation for company car drivers.

Basically, a mild hybrid can give a worthwhile benefit but whether it ver covers its initial purchase price increase is another matter and largely more down to individual tax situation than anything else.
It might be worthwhile to me, as a business user who travels longer distances and over very undulating country roads in the diesel, where I'm confident that I'd get the full 15% fuel economy benefit plus some undetermined benefit in kind tax reduction. Just from the fuel used, 38mpg + 15% = 44mpg, so a 5 to 6mpg economy boost.

Of course if purchasing long term, there is the probable extra maintenance and repair cost to consider, which will probably be significant at some point in the ownership and may well cause more depreciation as the car ages, if only because it may frighten potential owners [if not existing ones] off after a certain age and mileage.

[Sandj]

Originally Posted by RobQuads

Not on the XC60 - `On the XC60, customers will be able to choose between a B5 mild hybrid petrol or diesel variant,` - https://www.media.volvocars.com/glob...id-powertrains

Thanks for this, I've just phoned or local dealer and they say there will just be diesel hybrids!

[Deman77]

I wouldn’t rule out dealer misleading you to get a quick t5 sale so do double check.

If it is true just try the current diesel and the petrol but on extended test drive and see what you think. The hybrid will be that little bit nippier from start so if you don’t hate the sound and the type of acceleration diesel gives you, you may be better off with diesel.
I would still caution against any fresh tech from volvo though and wait for early adopters feedback.

[Sandj]

Originally Posted by Deman77

I wouldn’t rule out dealer misleading you to get a quick t5 sale so do double check.

If it is true just try the current diesel and the petrol but on extended test drive and see what you think. The hybrid will be that little bit nippier from start so if you don’t hate the sound and the type of acceleration diesel gives you, you may be better off with diesel.
I would still caution against any fresh tech from volvo though and wait for early adopters feedback.

Thanks for your post, it's helpful that you were reflecting our current thoughts with regard to the dealer and the question mark over the new technology.
We're set on petrol as we do a relatively low mileage although we want a comfortable, quiet car as we do some long runs. I guess there will be the same provisos on the diesel hybrids as being best for higher mileage.

[XC90Mk1]

Originally Posted by Deman77

The depreciation differences will be trivial over long run. Fuel cost difference for low mileage are also trivial and will be more than offset by below considerations.
Noise - volvo diesels are rattly and noisy - T5 is very quiet. You hear it or not every day and it bothers you until you sell the car.
Warm up time is almost instant in t5 which means 8 months a year when you need heat out of vents T5 will be much better unless you splash out on AUX heater with diesel.
How it drives. At speed both t5 and diesel feel similar. It’s an 8 speed auto which will not hold gear in diesel either. For spirited driving - no contest T5 is much more fun - the effective rev range is probably double on T5. At low speed T5 beats diesel as it has no lag and pick up pace from standstill nicely. The mild hybrid may address that but I would not trust it until i’ve tried it, which brings me to the last one.
Volvo has a track record of beta testing on customers - mine was one of the early xc90s and it took me good 18m to sort out all the gremlins - it’s a great car now but it was not at the beginning. Until you tried it do not order it.

To summarise T5 is in most aspects the better choice unless you have some towing duties or doing very high mileage and do not care about urban driving comfort.

Volvo diesels are ratily and noisy. What utter crap.

[familymangreg]

Originally Posted by XC90Mk1

Volvo diesels are ratily and noisy. What utter crap.

Really? I'm not so sure. A bit of a sweeping statement perhaps, but I'm trying to decide on whether or not to change my nearly 3 years old XC90 D5 PowerPulse. My main reason for looking at other brands is that I'm so underwhelmed with the D5, particularly from a refinement and power perspective.

Having test driven 6 cylinder versions of a Discovery, Q7, Touareg and A6, I can say with confidence that under harder acceleration (and moderate revs when cold), the D5 in my Volvo is noisy and rattly. Honestly, the 6 cylinder engines are so much quieter and smoother and make the vehicles they are in feel a whole load more premium than the Volvo.

Granted, the Volvo does settle down and becomes barely audible on a cruise, but when under any pressure, nobody could argue that it either sounds nice or refined.

:wq