Is any one else running a 16 valve red block - Page 3

rogerthechorister · Oct 18th, 2015, 12:52

I'm not having a 16V head put onto an 8V block. I'm having a B234F rebuilt and +T'd and put into a Sport. And I am told by those who have been there that once you want to go further than about 300 or 350 with 8 valves it starts getting both expensive and overstressed. I know one bloke who had about 400 out of a modified big-valve 531 and it went pop big style and embarrassingly as he was getting rude with a Beemer driver...

I only want about 300 - and I had a cream-crackered B234F. Rebuild and +T was an obvious choice.

I also have a non-cream-crackered B234F and since she still has the M46 the obvious thing to do is to pop an LPT on the side and use super-dooper petrol. Should give me about 200 and more than that would probably eat the M46. Just in case I'm off to Birmingham in a few days to get a spare M46 out of a turbo (so with the stronger overdrive).

360beast · Oct 19th, 2015, 09:20

How much boost are you planning on running Roger?

Are you getting a custom tubular manifold made up for the turbo? If so I would get it ceramic coated inside as it will make it nice and smooth as to aid the flow of the exhaust gasses.

rogerthechorister · Oct 19th, 2015, 10:23

No, I'm staying very mild. A standard Volvo turbocharger (but a little bit bigger than a 13C!) maybe a 16G or 17T, with an angled adaptor plate and a 90+ manifold - so that it looks at a lazy glance as if it's standard. Probably won't quite make 300 bhp but it will be a nice lazy street drive. Standard diesel clutch. Black Diamond drilled and grooved discs - standard size 'cos they fit inside Galaxies which a 302 conversion won't. Standard Sport suspension and nylastic bushes all round the front. The Sport had lower braces as standard.

barkster1971 · Oct 19th, 2015, 17:00

What are you doing for engine mangement and reducing the compression ratio?

rogerthechorister · Oct 19th, 2015, 18:31

Not sure about management.

B230FT pistons flycut to miss the valves.

nordmaschine · Nov 17th, 2015, 09:29

LH2.4 & EZK116 boxes from a turbo 8v with a set of custom chips, a cut to TPS-WOT wire, 850 T-5 injectors, and you should see north of 200 engine HP. Even a 15G should suffice at first...

rogerthechorister · Nov 17th, 2015, 12:37

The recipient has LH 2.4 and I'd need to check but I think the EZK is a 116. Obviously not chipped. But simply going proportionately, a B204GT gives 204 bhp out of 2 litres, so a B234F+T should give about flywheel 230 bhp because it's 2.3 litres, and that owuld be before upsizing the turbo.

Now the snag is that the recipient has a misfire/flat spot in the mid-range (in 8v form) and it has been being hunted for for 3 years, so I was thinking a completely different management system might be desirable...

nordmaschine · Nov 18th, 2015, 01:10

Obviously it is 116, since it is LH2.4. But computers from the turbo cars are slightly different, and you would want one, then a 16v turbo turbo chip (blabla, thelostartof, etc...). Or I could send you B204GT stock chips.

B204GT is actually 200bhp or147kW, not 204bhp - 150kW...

Anyway, I don't really see the point in doing B230FT pistons and thicker head gasket as to lower the compression in an engine for the streets and less than 500hp... Care to explain?

rogerthechorister · Nov 18th, 2015, 08:48

Yes, the recipient is a turbo so has a turbo ECU.

The engine being built will have B230FT pistons to get CR down to turbo levels and they will be relieved to clear the (angles) valves.

I have been cogitating a different way to turbo a B234F, using a thick gasket to decompress and keeping the standard B234F pistons.

A third and still separate issue is the potential for valve interference if the belt is dropped. This might be removed as a problem by going route 2.

I'll bear the idea of a B204 FT or GT set of brains in mind, thank you for the offer.

nordmaschine · Nov 18th, 2015, 09:14

Possibly only deeper cuts would render the engine safe in the case of a dropped belt, but that would make pistons likely to fall apart under some load. I think best bet is to use updated oil pump pulley with a stronger grade bolt, new OEM belt, make sure idlers and tensioner are in good nick and keep timing cover on. Cambelt failures are only result of poor maintenance.

Bringing compression ratio down to turbo levels would make the car notably more sluggish out of boost, while higher CR would retain off boost driveability, make for faster spool and require less boost for same power as one with lower CR. You would have to be more careful not to overboost it without adequate fueling and igniton timing, though.

No problem mate, if you decide on it you can have them for the price of a 27C256 EPROM and postage.

Oct 18th, 2015, 12:52	#21
rogerthechorister Rogerthechorister Last Online: Dec 16th, 2023 02:15 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rochester	Not a conversion I'm not having a 16V head put onto an 8V block. I'm having a B234F rebuilt and +T'd and put into a Sport. And I am told by those who have been there that once you want to go further than about 300 or 350 with 8 valves it starts getting both expensive and overstressed. I know one bloke who had about 400 out of a modified big-valve 531 and it went pop big style and embarrassingly as he was getting rude with a Beemer driver... I only want about 300 - and I had a cream-crackered B234F. Rebuild and +T was an obvious choice. I also have a non-cream-crackered B234F and since she still has the M46 the obvious thing to do is to pop an LPT on the side and use super-dooper petrol. Should give me about 200 and more than that would probably eat the M46. Just in case I'm off to Birmingham in a few days to get a spare M46 out of a turbo (so with the stronger overdrive). __________________ B234F estate, H reg 100k miles. RIP melted B280E. 760T estate, F reg 133k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 170k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 100k miles, ex Lovejoy. 960 Estate, N reg, 56k miles, blown up and sold.

Oct 19th, 2015, 10:23	#23
rogerthechorister Rogerthechorister Last Online: Dec 16th, 2023 02:15 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rochester	Extra go? No, I'm staying very mild. A standard Volvo turbocharger (but a little bit bigger than a 13C!) maybe a 16G or 17T, with an angled adaptor plate and a 90+ manifold - so that it looks at a lazy glance as if it's standard. Probably won't quite make 300 bhp but it will be a nice lazy street drive. Standard diesel clutch. Black Diamond drilled and grooved discs - standard size 'cos they fit inside Galaxies which a 302 conversion won't. Standard Sport suspension and nylastic bushes all round the front. The Sport had lower braces as standard. __________________ B234F estate, H reg 100k miles. RIP melted B280E. 760T estate, F reg 133k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 170k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 100k miles, ex Lovejoy. 960 Estate, N reg, 56k miles, blown up and sold.

Oct 19th, 2015, 17:00	#24
barkster1971 VOC Member Last Online: Apr 23rd, 2024 16:56 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Swineshead/Salford	ecu What are you doing for engine mangement and reducing the compression ratio? __________________ new engine! new car!

Oct 19th, 2015, 18:31	#25
rogerthechorister Rogerthechorister Last Online: Dec 16th, 2023 02:15 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rochester	Management Not sure about management. B230FT pistons flycut to miss the valves. __________________ B234F estate, H reg 100k miles. RIP melted B280E. 760T estate, F reg 133k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 170k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 100k miles, ex Lovejoy. 960 Estate, N reg, 56k miles, blown up and sold.

Nov 17th, 2015, 12:37	#27
rogerthechorister Rogerthechorister Last Online: Dec 16th, 2023 02:15 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rochester	Is that a mis-type? The recipient has LH 2.4 and I'd need to check but I think the EZK is a 116. Obviously not chipped. But simply going proportionately, a B204GT gives 204 bhp out of 2 litres, so a B234F+T should give about flywheel 230 bhp because it's 2.3 litres, and that owuld be before upsizing the turbo. Now the snag is that the recipient has a misfire/flat spot in the mid-range (in 8v form) and it has been being hunted for for 3 years, so I was thinking a completely different management system might be desirable... __________________ B234F estate, H reg 100k miles. RIP melted B280E. 760T estate, F reg 133k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 170k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 100k miles, ex Lovejoy. 960 Estate, N reg, 56k miles, blown up and sold.

Oct 19th, 2015, 09:20	#22
360beast Go redblock or go home Last Online: Today 11:41 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: UK	How much boost are you planning on running Roger? Are you getting a custom tubular manifold made up for the turbo? If so I would get it ceramic coated inside as it will make it nice and smooth as to aid the flow of the exhaust gasses.

Nov 17th, 2015, 09:29	#26
nordmaschine Member Last Online: Jun 16th, 2023 17:00 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Banjaluka	LH2.4 & EZK116 boxes from a turbo 8v with a set of custom chips, a cut to TPS-WOT wire, 850 T-5 injectors, and you should see north of 200 engine HP. Even a 15G should suffice at first...

Nov 18th, 2015, 01:10	#28
nordmaschine Member Last Online: Jun 16th, 2023 17:00 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Banjaluka	Obviously it is 116, since it is LH2.4. But computers from the turbo cars are slightly different, and you would want one, then a 16v turbo turbo chip (blabla, thelostartof, etc...). Or I could send you B204GT stock chips. B204GT is actually 200bhp or147kW, not 204bhp - 150kW... Anyway, I don't really see the point in doing B230FT pistons and thicker head gasket as to lower the compression in an engine for the streets and less than 500hp... Care to explain?

Nov 18th, 2015, 08:48	#29
rogerthechorister Rogerthechorister Last Online: Dec 16th, 2023 02:15 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rochester	Turbo Yes, the recipient is a turbo so has a turbo ECU. The engine being built will have B230FT pistons to get CR down to turbo levels and they will be relieved to clear the (angles) valves. I have been cogitating a different way to turbo a B234F, using a thick gasket to decompress and keeping the standard B234F pistons. A third and still separate issue is the potential for valve interference if the belt is dropped. This might be removed as a problem by going route 2. I'll bear the idea of a B204 FT or GT set of brains in mind, thank you for the offer. __________________ B234F estate, H reg 100k miles. RIP melted B280E. 760T estate, F reg 133k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 170k miles. 940 Sport M90 estate, N reg 100k miles, ex Lovejoy. 960 Estate, N reg, 56k miles, blown up and sold.

Nov 18th, 2015, 09:14	#30
nordmaschine Member Last Online: Jun 16th, 2023 17:00 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Banjaluka	Possibly only deeper cuts would render the engine safe in the case of a dropped belt, but that would make pistons likely to fall apart under some load. I think best bet is to use updated oil pump pulley with a stronger grade bolt, new OEM belt, make sure idlers and tensioner are in good nick and keep timing cover on. Cambelt failures are only result of poor maintenance. Bringing compression ratio down to turbo levels would make the car notably more sluggish out of boost, while higher CR would retain off boost driveability, make for faster spool and require less boost for same power as one with lower CR. You would have to be more careful not to overboost it without adequate fueling and igniton timing, though. No problem mate, if you decide on it you can have them for the price of a 27C256 EPROM and postage.

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