Public charging a Hybrid

[Gmore]

Originally Posted by Murph7355

Bad

Based on an XC90 (which I know the post isn't about), they have a roughly 15kWh (usable - 19kWh ish nominal) battery.

They will apparently do 40 miles on that on a good day.

So around £10 gets you 40 miles using a public charger at 70p per kWh. (I'm being favourable in my rounding and also in charge costs - public chargers in the UK are around 79p at the moment, with some a good bit more. Also assuming we'd be happy spending 5hrs at Grantham services ).

At 30mpg (no idea if that's realistic - our D5 gets that easily), that same 40 miles will cost you about £9.

Public charge companies are screwing the pooch in terms of the economics of electric....especially when you consider that at the very worst a home tariff will cost you 30p per kWh, and at that the electricity companies are still making a profit.

So the rule is, with any form of electric powered vehicle (PHEV or BEV), avoid charging up at public networks.

Charging that same PHEV overnight at home will cost you just over £1. So do that, and only use electric power (most of us do an average of 30 miles per day or so) and all of a sudden you're on a winner

When looking at our next family wagon we ran through the sort of mileage and trips we do throughout a typical year...the economics of a PHEV and BEV were very similar (ICE was a good chunk behind, including purchase price). A higher percentage of short journeys that don't require public charging and the BEV starts to win.

That assumes fuel and public charging (plus home tariffs) remain the same relative to each other over the next 6yrs or so. Which is a bit of a gamble....but ultimately my OH preferred the familiarity and quality of the XC90 over an EV9. But it was close

Some charging points cost around 40p/KWh which is definitely cheaper than petrol.

[Murph7355]

Originally Posted by Gmore

Some charging points cost around 40p/KWh which is definitely cheaper than petrol.

I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't subsidised with an arrangement (I get 30p at Ionity with my BEV, for example).

But then you run into the charge speed limitation.

Who's going to sit at a public charger for 5+hrs waiting to get 40 miles of range to save a couple of quid?

The use case for PHEV is that your daily mileage is all/mostly within battery range, or within battery range with charge speed blocks of time between. You need to be charging at home. And need the car occasionally for longer trips beyond the range of a BEV (trips that don't have good access to destination charging).

It's quite a narrow window IMO. Our usage patterns just about fit (if I've done the maths right). But had the interior of the EV9 been a little better and the deals on offer matched Volvo's, we'd have bought one.

[GMcL]

Originally Posted by Murph7355

The use case for PHEV is that your daily mileage is all/mostly within battery range, or within battery range with charge speed blocks of time between. You need to be charging at home. And need the car occasionally for longer trips beyond the range of a BEV (trips that don't have good access to destination charging).

It's quite a narrow window IMO. Our usage patterns just about fit (if I've done the maths right). But had the interior of the EV9 been a little better and the deals on offer matched Volvo's, we'd have bought one.

Isn't that the use case for a full EV ? If you can manage all or most of your required 'daily' mileage with the battery of a PHEV then you can go for several days with a full EV.

PHEV use case is covering distances which require two or more EV charges to complete the journey. The battery can be saved for the destination which may be in a restricted emissions zone requiring EV running or the battery can be used to maximise the range of the internal combustion engine.

[Murph7355]

Originally Posted by GMcL

Isn't that the use case for a full EV ? If you can manage all or most of your required 'daily' mileage with the battery of a PHEV then you can go for several days with a full EV.

PHEV use case is covering distances which require two or more EV charges to complete the journey. The battery can be saved for the destination which may be in a restricted emissions zone requiring EV running or the battery can be used to maximise the range of the internal combustion engine.

That's broadly what I was trying to say in terms of the longer stuff.

But if the majority of your journeys are of that sort, then the economics don't stack up for a PHEV. Just get a petrol/MHEV (initial outlay is much cheaper).

A decent chunk of mileage done solely on electric, but the back up of an ICE for relatively infrequent longer distance is the sweetspot for PHEV IMO.

PHEVs often allow the electric motor to add to the ICE too. That also seems a bit of a false economy choice to me, though am sure will be amusing when our T8 arrives.

[GMcL]

I'm thinking about consolidating my two cars (diesel and petrol) into one. I was looking at V60 T6s and a T8 popped up. Hmmm, made the mistake of mentioning 400+hp to the finance manager who took a dim view. Still looks like all the car I need.

'She' has an EV which we use for all the local running around. My car is the big mileage in a short period of time choice.

[Gmore]

Originally Posted by Murph7355

I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't subsidised with an arrangement (I get 30p at Ionity with my BEV, for example).

There are few. Ubitricity via Electroverse is 42p per KWh, SWARCO is 42p, APCOA is 34p…

If I travel somewhere with my family, I look for a cheap charging and most of the time I find one. For example, if I visit friends in Cambridge or I go for shopping in London. I don’t always get a full charge but I manage to keep the mpg very high.

I wouldn’t tell anyone to avoid public charging. There are cases where it makes sense and other where it doesn’t. For example, it doesn’t make any sense to at a service station and charge the car

[V60 probably]

Originally Posted by Murph7355

A decent chunk of mileage done solely on electric, but the back up of an ICE for relatively infrequent longer distance is the sweetspot for PHEV IMO.

That's exactly where I am, my commute is 7 miles each way and I can charge for free at work, so all of my commute is effectively free fuel. But i fI want to drive to London, I don't have to factor in charging times, just use ICE. My previous car was a full EV and it drove me mad having to allow a couple of hours of charging in a 500 mile round trip.

[Murph7355]

Originally Posted by V60 probably

That's exactly where I am, my commute is 7 miles each way and I can charge for free at work, so all of my commute is effectively free fuel. But i fI want to drive to London, I don't have to factor in charging times, just use ICE. My previous car was a full EV and it drove me mad having to allow a couple of hours of charging in a 500 mile round trip.

I'd have to do under 45mins charging in my EV for that mileage

[V60 probably]

Originally Posted by Murph7355

I'd have to do under 45mins charging in my EV for that mileage

My EQC claimed 260 miles, I got 230 in the height of summer and 170 in winter. It would charge at 120kW so I suppose I could get a decent charge in 45 minutes, but with my V60 Hybrid, I can get 500 miles in 4.5 minutes in a petrol station. I'm very impatient when I'm driving home and sitting for 45 minutes or an hour drove me mad.

My mate had an EQC at the same time and rarely did distance, so he loved it and now has an IX3.

[sandys]

Originally Posted by Murph7355

I'd have to do under 45mins charging in my EV for that mileage

Assuming you find a fast enough charger of course and not one of the many 7kw that seem to exist in most remote locations.