Wheels/Tyres: 140: Steel/hub cap question

[mylittletony]

Hello everyone,

I've got some 144/145 steel wheels fitted to my 245 but having some issues.

They are this design, but have been made wider:



The problem I'm having is with the wheel and bracket/spider thing for the hub caps (shown below)



When I fitted the wheel with the spider, it was really tight to get on. I went to check my pads yesterday and had to use a block of wood and a large hammer to remove the wheel. Upon close inspection, the spider thing has caught on the 240 hub. I've now removed the brackets as roadside removal is impossible

I've spoken with Dai who suggests this is a fairly common problem, can anyone give me any pointers for what to check/grease/adjust to get these fitting correctly?

I've come up with a few options:
1. Use a flap wheel to slightly enlarge the wheel opening so the wheel can come off leaving the spider on the hub
2. Notch out the spider so it's not a full circle where the wheel contacts it.
3. Grease everything well and cross my fingers

[mylittletony]

here's my wheel on the car, you can see the gap to the hub is small



The damage to the spider thing is here, it looks like it's picked up on the hub.



What do people think?

[Derek UK]

AFAIK the spider/hub cap retainer should clip to the wheel and stay there when you take the wheel off. It's possible that the 240 hub design is different to the 140 ones.

[Triple-S]

Only just seen this thread.... As Derek says, they stick to 140-style wheels OK when being removed so as he says perhaps 240 hubs are different to 140s. If of use can measure the flange upstand on my 145 tomorrow.

P

[Triple-S]

Just measured front hub diameter of 145 and its 2 3/8", so did the same on my 240 and its 2 1/2" so there's your problem. Yes 140/164 wheels do fit the 240 - have them on my spares-only 240 just to keep it off the ground, but clearances so tight didn't put that spider on. Didn't try rears as no access.
I wouldn't reduce 140 wheel centre diameter as it might affect things (balance, also insurance issues?) - leave spiders and caps off. Get some dome-head wheel nuts - I had those once and they look OK.

P

[mylittletony]

Thanks Paul, very useful info and definitely explains it!

I must pay you a visit soon, will drop you an email

Originally Posted by Triple-S

Just measured front hub diameter of 145 and its 2 3/8", so did the same on my 240 and its 2 1/2" so there's your problem. Yes 140/164 wheels do fit the 240 - have them on my spares-only 240 just to keep it off the ground, but clearances so tight didn't put that spider on. Didn't try rears as no access.
I wouldn't reduce 140 wheel centre diameter as it might affect things (balance, also insurance issues?) - leave spiders and caps off. Get some dome-head wheel nuts - I had those once and they look OK.

P

[Derek UK]

Looks as this means that the 240 changed to hub centre centring rather than having the tapered wheel nuts pulling the wheel into position. Having seen many of the later type of wheels with ovaled and damaged holes in the wheels means that hub centred wheels can be more accurately centred wheels. This also gives benefits with wheel balance.

[Volvorama]

The centring thing doesn't apply to either 140s or 240s as far as I know and anyway they have studs, not bolts. The 140 wheels are a sloppy fit in the centre and the later, square-hole ones have trims that fit into the wheel centre. Early 240s used hubcaps that fit in the centre onto the hub itself. Fitting 140 trims will be difficult as although the 240 wheel is not a tight fit on the centre of the hub, the gap is very small. Some 240s had a small central trim that didn't cover the nuts, but this is pretty flimsy and would be unlikely to be able to support the 140 hubcap anyway.