Does of did your VEA diesel engine use a lot of oil?

[bananarama]

According to these guys, excessive oil consumption is also seen on some Volvo petrol engines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DBroXxbSmw&t=351s

[Beef1621]

It's been interesting reading the chat on this. I'm new here and no expert. But I've joined the forum to try and find out why my 2007 V70 (Sporty model165bhp?) 250,000 miles is now consuming oil at an increasing rate over the past couple of years. I'm now using 1 litre per 250 miles. My garage just said "keep topping it up" when I last asked. I've not been doing any long runs recently, especially since lockdown, mostly 5-30 mile sort of distances. I had the DPF changed within the last couple of thousand miles which was probably clogged by all this s hite going down the pipe. My carbon footprint is now massive and I'd like to know if it is worth trying to rectify the issue or just scrap it. Your thoughts would be welcome.

[Familyman 90]

Originally Posted by bananarama

That doesn't sound acceptable...

For example, our current car (Golf MK4 1.9L GT TDI PD) has 213k and consumes ~ nothing.

Renault, for example, reckon a litre every 900 miles is the threshold for being a problem, so why is 1 litre every 3000 somewhere else not acceptable?

And citing your own experience with yet another brand and model is neither helpful or relevant. For example, I've never accidentally chopped my own leg off with a chainsaw, but other people have. That I still have my limbs is utterly irrelevant to their plight, as is your cars to theirs.

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by Zebster

It's also unreasonable to expect a modern diesel - built primarily to maximise economy - to consume no engine oil between services. So exactly where would you (subjectively) draw the line where the oil consumption becomes unreasonable? Volvo themselves draw the line at 1L every 1k miles for the early VEA, so where else should we be seeking information upon which to base our figures?

The problem is that oil consumption for the affected VEA engines starts out as minimal, which is normal for Volvo engines, but rises hugely at a later time, which is not normal for Volvo engines. Your car developed the problem at around 75,000 miles but I also know of one V60 D4 where the issue didn't start until around 150,000 miles.

What is unacceptable, therefore, isn't a specific oil consumption figure, it's the drastic increase in oil consumption that some owners experience.

What is also unacceptable is the contrast between one VEA engine and another, for instance my D4 and my wife's D3.

If VEA engines all began their life consuming 1 litre of oil per thousand miles then it would at least be something to factor into a purchase decision. Instead it is like a lottery wherein the player often loses.

No-one selling a used VEA-engined Volvo is going to say that their vehicle has high oil consumption, and no used car dealer is likely to perform an engine overhaul prior to sale. The fact that oil consumption grows so drastically at a later date and that high oil consumption, even in engines with starship mileage, isn't traditional for Volvo is what is of concern. This is added to by Volvo distancing itself from the problem in the UK while admitting that there is a problem in the USA. The term "stitch-up" comes to mind.

Had I been aware of this issue before buying my V70 then I would not have bought it, and my wife definitely would not have bought her V60 either. As it is I possibly got lucky but wife certainly didn't.

I also note that I have not heard of any later VEA-engined cars having the problem. There are loads of SPA-platformed vehicles out there - all VEA-engined - and a very active forum or two for those vehicles right here, but I haven't seen any threads in these forums about high oil consumption. The issue seems to have been ended by the oil control ring redesign.

The whole thing is incredibly unfair and I just wish that there was a way to get Volvo to step up like they have in the USA. So... how do we do this?

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

Renault, for example, reckon a litre every 900 miles is the threshold for being a problem, so why is 1 litre every 3000 somewhere else not acceptable?

And citing your own experience with yet another brand and model is neither helpful or relevant. For example, I've never accidentally chopped my own leg off with a chainsaw, but other people have. That I still have my limbs is utterly irrelevant to their plight, as is your cars to theirs.

This thread is about VEA-engined Volvos and the issue of high oil consumption. Someone contrasting oil consumption between different vehicles that they have known to highlight the issue is fine in my book.

Please can we avoid criticising or dismissing fellow members, especially those thinking of buying a Volvo? It isn't helpful in any way.

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Sotosound

The problem is that oil consumption for the affected VEA engines starts out as minimal, which is normal for Volvo engines, but rises hugely at a later time, which is not normal for Volvo engines. Your car developed the problem at around 75,000 miles but I also know of one V60 D4 where the issue didn't start until around 150,000 miles.

What is unacceptable, therefore, isn't a specific oil consumption figure, it's the drastic increase in oil consumption that some owners experience.

What is also unacceptable is the contrast between one VEA engine and another, for instance my D4 and my wife's D3.

If VEA engines all began their life consuming 1 litre of oil per thousand miles then it would at least be something to factor into a purchase decision. Instead it is like a lottery wherein the player often loses.

No-one selling a used VEA-engined Volvo is going to say that their vehicle has high oil consumption, and no used car dealer is likely to perform an engine overhaul prior to sale. The fact that oil consumption grows so drastically at a later date and that high oil consumption, even in engines with starship mileage, isn't traditional for Volvo is what is of concern. This is added to by Volvo distancing itself from the problem in the UK while admitting that there is a problem in the USA. The term "stitch-up" comes to mind.

Had I been aware of this issue before buying my V70 then I would not have bought it, and my wife definitely would not have bought her V60 either. As it is I possibly got lucky but wife certainly didn't.

I also note that I have not heard of any later VEA-engined cars having the problem. There are loads of SPA-platformed vehicles out there - all VEA-engined - and a very active forum or two for those vehicles right here, but I haven't seen any threads in these forums about high oil consumption. The issue seems to have been ended by the oil control ring redesign.

The whole thing is incredibly unfair and I just wish that there was a way to get Volvo to step up like they have in the USA. So... how do we do this?

Firstly, I honestly never viewed this as any sort of 'problem', merely a 'characteristic'. A view subsequently reinforced by my trusted Volvo dealer telling me it shouldn't be considered to be a problem while oil consumption was less than 1L every 1k miles. I only mentioned it to them because the warning message was on when I took it in for a service!

I really don't know what the original oil consumption was like when the car was new, as it was already on 64k when I got it at 3 years old. Maybe it was zero, maybe it was 'minimal' (whatever that means?) or maybe there was always a level of consumption on some examples?

It is reported in quite a few forum threads that later VEA engines seem to have a problem with oil dilution, where fuel somehow makes its way into the sump causing the level to rise and leading to warning messages instructing the removal of excess oil. This would obviously mask any consumption.

The US VEA issue affects almost exclusively petrol engined cars, suggesting that perhaps soot fouling the oil control rings and piston drainways isn't the only reason for oil consumption? And oil burning in a petrol engine is a much more serious issue.

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by Zebster

Firstly, I honestly never viewed this as any sort of 'problem', merely a 'characteristic'. A view subsequently reinforced by my trusted Volvo dealer telling me it shouldn't be considered to be a problem while oil consumption was less than 1L every 1k miles. I only mentioned it to them because the warning message was on when I took it in for a service!

I really don't know what the original oil consumption was like when the car was new, as it was already on 64k when I got it at 3 years old. Maybe it was zero, maybe it was 'minimal' (whatever that means?) or maybe there was always a level of consumption on some examples?

It is reported in quite a few forum threads that later VEA engines seem to have a problem with oil dilution, where fuel somehow makes its way into the sump causing the level to rise and leading to warning messages instructing the removal of excess oil. This would obviously mask any consumption.

The US VEA issue affects almost exclusively petrol engined cars, suggesting that perhaps soot fouling the oil control rings and piston drainways isn't the only reason for oil consumption? And oil burning in a petrol engine is a much more serious issue.

The reason why the issue in the USA relates to petrol cars is because they mainly drive petrol cars over there. That doesn't mean that diesels don't have an issue. Mine doesn't. It barely sips oil at over 140K miles. My wife's does, however. It uses 1 litre every thousand miles. The car's mileage is currently 111k.

Over here, when I took my wife's V60 to a Volvo dealer for some recall work late in 2020, they checked the car over and suggested a new short engine for around £6-7K would fix it, i.e. roughly the value of the car. They didn't actually say what the issue was, however. Not very helpful, really. But they would not suggest a new short engine if there wasn't a problem.

The issue with later VEA engines that you describe isn't very reassuring and harks back to an issue with early P3 D5s. (Sheesh!)

I do note that Volvo changed the oil control ring design and implemented it across all VEA engines in 2016, suggesting that there's a problem diesel cars as well as petrol cars. (Obviously there is, anyway, as my wife's V60 D3 has it.)

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

Renault, for example, reckon a litre every 900 miles is the threshold for being a problem, so why is 1 litre every 3000 somewhere else not acceptable? And citing your own experience with yet another brand and model is neither helpful or relevant.

Ducati say the same; 1L ~ 1kms. In fact, take a look at the small-print of most manufacturers, and you'll find similar wording. I think it's their way of protecting against manufacturing variance and design "flaws".

It is useful to compare because, not only does it highlight a significant difference, it also highlights what is achievable. I appreciate there is a 10 year gap between the TDI and the VEA, and it could be the case that the VEA, with the stricter emission standards it has to meet, inherently drinks more oil.

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Ducati say the same; 1L ~ 1kms. In fact, take a look at the small-print of most manufacturers, and you'll find similar wording. I think it's their way of protecting against manufacturing variance and design "flaws".

It is useful to compare because, not only does it highlight a significant difference, it also highlights what is achievable. I appreciate there is a 10 year gap between the TDI and the VEA, and it could be the case that the VEA, with the stricter emission standards it has to meet, inherently drinks more oil.

Only if those oil control ring holes get blocked; and Volvo changed the ring design in 2016 to fix this.

My car has the old-design rings and 140K+ miles, but doesn't use much oil at all. So not quite inherent.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Sotosound

My car has the old-design rings and 140K+ miles, but doesn't use much oil at all.

It's obvious your car has had a lot of loving