What's the problem with electric cars?

[Fastpatsilents]

"And while figures from an EV manufacturer might be regarded with some suspicion, a US insurer studied data from the National Transportation Safety Board and concluded that battery-powered EVs suffer only 25 fires per 100,000 sold, compared to 1,530 for petrol or diesel vehicles, and notably 3,475 for hybrids"

"In the UK, Air Quality News made an in-depth study of the EV fire threat, and discovered that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade tackled 54 fires in EVs, compared to 1,898 in petrol and diesel cars. A more recent study by Health & Safety specialist CE Safety suggested there had been 735 call-outs to EV fires in the UK over the past five years – but this included all types of EV including scooters and bikes, with cars representing just 44% of the total – so around 323 when there are close to 33 million cars on the UK’s roads…"

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-e...0for%20hybrids.

[DaveNP]

Originally Posted by Ulrikas PA

The V60 is a plug in rather than a self charger, so my average has included overnight charging at home, and using the 20-25m range that gives me. The trip computer works it out, and I'm sure you could debate the mpg accuracy versus the actual, just like you could with a regular diesel or petrol.

What I can say (like Clan cited) is that it you do lots of trips in the (say) 5-40 mile range, you end up with a massive range extender.

...

Originally Posted by Existential Crisis

One of my colleagues has a plug in hybrid Kia and only puts fuel in it when he goes away longer journeys it sits with a full tank of fuel from week to week as his commute is about 16 Mike's total 5 days a week.

Thanks both
That is rather as I suspected, as physics says there's no such thing as free energy. In this instance the mpg figure is then not the whole story, ultimately if EC's colleague never does more than his 16 mile commute his mpg is infinite, but someone doing much longer frequent journeys would gain only a smaller contribution to the 'mpg' from the first 25 mile being electric. And we should then factor in the cost, both environmentally and financially of the electric energy into the 'mpg' somehow. That doesn't condemn the hybrid as useless, just means one has to consider likely usage before buying one, and I'd suspect as Clan is cited there's a lot of people who don't go far for the majority of their jouneys.

[Offgrid]

Maybe hydrogen fuel cells have a future, but I cant see battery powers cars having major adaption apart for some specific uses. They are too damaging to the environment, and they divert electricity from more beneficial uses. It's pretty mad anyway, as the electricity is generated from natures energy batteries (oil and coal ) at the moment. If we want to "save the planet" we should reduce the manufacture of all new cars, and only build reliable enduring ones.

[Fastpatsilents]

Originally Posted by Offgrid

Maybe hydrogen fuel cells have a future, but I cant see battery powers cars having major adaption apart for some specific uses. They are too damaging to the environment, and they divert electricity from more beneficial uses. It's pretty mad anyway, as the electricity is generated from natures energy batteries (oil and coal ) at the moment. If we want to "save the planet" we should reduce the manufacture of all new cars, and only build reliable enduring ones.

On the contrary EVs are part of the solution to "diverting electricity" from wind and solar at times when the load is low. On annual basis solar, wind and hydro now provide nearly 50% of the UK's electricity - just not always when we need it.

A useful solution to rising energy bills for homeowners is solar panels, a EV, battery bank and a duel fuel supply as a back up - the cars battery doubling the stored domestic power. I'm a member of a couple of groups (only one involving Tesla cars and Powerwall) and there are some impressive results.

[SnineT]

Originally Posted by Offgrid

Maybe hydrogen fuel cells have a future, but I cant see battery powers cars having major adaption apart for some specific uses. They are too damaging to the environment, and they divert electricity from more beneficial uses. It's pretty mad anyway, as the electricity is generated from natures energy batteries (oil and coal ) at the moment. If we want to "save the planet" we should reduce the manufacture of all new cars, and only build reliable enduring ones.

Hydrogen is dead in the water atm, fuelling stations are removing it and all it really does is to transfer the wall plug into more weight in the car for the car to tug around, as for getting it to replace gasoline as such although some have got working prototypes I believe they come with serious caveats, as hydrogen is water based as such and a gas I would imagine without some sort of serious uberlube the fuel would wreck a piston engine in quick time, 1 the drying effect and 2 the residual ending up in the sump turning the oil into a head gasket leak, I could be wrong but that's how it would appear to me in much the same way old cars had to have either a substitute or the valves and seats re-cut when lead was removed from petrol.

[Fastpatsilents]

Originally Posted by SnineT

Hydrogen is dead in the water atm, fuelling stations are removing it and all it really does is to transfer the wall plug into more weight in the car for the car to tug around, as for getting it to replace gasoline as such although some have got working prototypes I believe they come with serious caveats, as hydrogen is water based as such and a gas I would imagine without some sort of serious uberlube the fuel would wreck a piston engine in quick time, 1 the drying effect and 2 the residual ending up in the sump turning the oil into a head gasket leak, I could be wrong but that's how it would appear to me in much the same way old cars had to have either a substitute or the valves and seats re-cut when lead was removed from petrol.

Which fueling stations provided hydrogen but have now removed it?


Hydrogen powered vehicles use fuel cells, they don't have pistons!

[Forg]

Hydrogen cars are EV's where the energy is stored & transferred in hydrogen rather than by transferring electricity directly into an electro-chemical battery.

EV's aren't perfect for everyone yet, but I do know quite a few people that are very happily using them; especially with such a large proportion of the workforce working from home these days, they can recharge their cars direct from the cells on their roof and not get shafted by the low prices that electricity companies buy solar output 'cos they don't really have a way of managing it yet (ie. they can't just ramp down all other forms of generation just 'cos it's a sunny day & every 2nd house is pumping 5kW into the grid). In particular these people enjoy the acceleration, the lack of a need to ever go near smelly refueling stations, and (although this will change) the relative lack of depreciation due to the current high demand.

If I'm buying a car for me I want some sort of interaction with it, I'm not a fan of the dullness you get from automatics (of all varieties - there's no difference between a dual-clutch mechatronic gearbox & a slushbox & a CVT). EV's are the ultimate appliance, they're just an appliance, and while there're still the occasional non-appliance around (although TBH I don't think Volvo even sells a manual in Australia any more) I'd prefer the non-appliance.

But for the better-half's car I sorta need to find other things that interest me in it. And nobody sells an EV wagon or coupé in Australia yet, they're all SUV's (puke) with the occasional hatch. So they ain't there for our uses, yet.

Also if I'm honest I'm not yet convinced of the environmental impact of me buying an EV. I know there's a LOT of garbage out there promoted by the oil industry & their conservative political lackeys, but mass-produced battery tech still uses materials which do a helluva lot of destruction obtaining & refining them; and transporting that stuff around isn't being done via sustainable methods. I know flow-battery tech uses much less nasty materials, but that's not what's for sale today.

I'm not at all concerned about recharge availability though. I see those things all the time, and they're not all in use.

[Offgrid]

There are some nasty emissions from charging and discharging batteries, but nobody talks about that. I gather the US is having to upgrade some roads because of the extra weight of EVs. In fact I believe that Wyoming has a bill in the pipeline to ban the sale of EVs in the state. I've seen various estimative of the climate damage resulting from the manufacture and distribution of EVs, and it seems it may be some 20 times the damage caused by my driving my 35 year old 740. It seems madness to push the manufacture of them if we really are at the tipping point of climate change.

Make old ladies happy, and save the world, keep 740s on the road.

[Fastpatsilents]

Originally Posted by Offgrid

There are some nasty emissions from charging and discharging batteries, but nobody talks about that.

Make old ladies happy, and save the world, keep 740s on the road.

Okay let's talk about it. Please can you tell me what gases are given off by a lithium ion battery during its charge and recharge cycle?

[SnineT]

Originally Posted by Fastpatsilents

Which fueling stations provided hydrogen but have now removed it?


Hydrogen powered vehicles use fuel cells, they don't have pistons!

https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/18...ons-in-the-uk/


https://www.cummins.com/engines/hydrogen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjKwSF9gT8



All links posted in good faith not a stick contest, hth you get up to date with a few things you won't see in the media.