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suddenly starter motor wont engage

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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 01:31   #31
aardvarkash10
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yeah, it'll do that because of the load presented by the solenoid at initial pull in (around 35A). This load causes a huge voltage drop across the worn or burnt starter switches, and so the voltage presented to the solenoid can be next to nothing on measurement.

Disconnect the solenoid activation terminal off the starter and test for a voltage on the lead with no load - it will probably show 12v.

By putting a relay in between, the load on the switchgear is dramatically reduced (down to less than 0.5A). It can handle this load and the relay carries the high current to the starter.

Yeah - smoke alright. Our speedo-wearing, underarm-bowling, XXXX-drinking brethern are copping it big time. Some days you can smell the smoke here, 1500km away.
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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 01:32   #32
Laird Scooby
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I was only wondering the other day where you'd got to Rick!

I'm not sure if i can find the photos but removing the starter switch isn't difficult on the 7/940, just fiddly.

You don't need to remove the steering lock but there is a big word of warning before i go further - not all the switches are the same!

Really you need to find the part number on the one you have before you can replace it.

To remove the starter switch, first you gain access to the area by removing the instrument cluster and obviously, any trim surrounding it first.

Once out, pull the plug off the contact pins on the switch and move it out of your way. Next, using a wide, flat-bladed screwdriver, undo the two screws holding the switch onto the steering lock. The slots in the screws are ~7mm x 1.3mm according to my digital "very-near" gauge, the threads are M4 x 12 so don't take much unscrewing.

Once off, you can find the part number on the back. It seems Volvo have not just used a variety of different switches but keyed them differently and have different plug arrangements, none of which will interchange.

As you have to remove the instruments to get to your switch, it might help with your speedo problem. Also I have a spare 940 starter switch here, not sure of the part number off the top of my head (and it's raining now so not going out to the shed to check!) but i suspect you will have to have a new switch.

The link Ash has posted up is helpful as it shows much of what i'm on about. However the idea of adding a relay probably won't work. What actually happens with the Volvo start switches is firtly wear inside the switch and second, where the aluminium front is peened over onto the rear plastic switch base, the peening loosens allowing the plastic base to move away from the aluminium housing.
This means that A) the plastic base rotates with the key (so the start position isn't even reached in practice, even if the key turns that far) and B) the contacts don't contact so you still don't get an output from the starter terminal on the switch, not even enough to power a relay.

If you can get the part number of the one you need for your 945, i'll check the one i have which came from a working car - no good to me as it won't even go on to the back of the steering lock on mine and has a lot more pins and the plug won't go on it either!
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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 01:37   #33
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Originally Posted by bluebrickrick View Post
Thanks Ash, its a non turbo petrol, I suspect the switch hence my foray after a spare to at least figure out how to dismantle with minimum smoke emitted - unlike your photo - talk about sepia filters going out of fashion ;(

When I have been able to get a meter on it in fault mode it is nil rather than reduced voltage feed and no amount of steering wheel or dash clouting improves matters.

Given how long I was chasing that intermittent uncrimped 'hotwire' to the fuel pump, life 'aint long enough............

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Originally Posted by aardvarkash10 View Post
yeah, it'll do that because of the load presented by the solenoid at initial pull in (around 35A). This load causes a huge voltage drop across the worn or burnt starter switches, and so the voltage presented to the solenoid can be next to nothing on measurement.

Disconnect the solenoid activation terminal off the starter and test for a voltage on the lead with no load - it will probably show 12v.

By putting a relay in between, the load on the switchgear is dramatically reduced (down to less than 0.5A). It can handle this load and the relay carries the high current to the starter.

Yeah - smoke alright. Our speedo-wearing, underarm-bowling, XXXX-drinking brethern are copping it big time. Some days you can smell the smoke here, 1500km away.
See my notes in the last two paragraphs of my post above - i was typing while you pair were posting!

On mine i often get a reduced voltage feed out of the ignition switch (about 9V even with a fully charged battery), switch off and back on again and hey presto, it's back up to full voltage again! It's caused a few temporary non-starts, trying to put off paying the £45 to Volvo for a new one for a while though!
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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 01:48   #34
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Cheers Dave

I'd had a meander round Gooble's pictures after posting and find what I have felt as rivet heads on the engine side of the switch are either torqs or as you note flat screws, the lack of mirror and impending darkness along with icy blast didn't help either

I'm a lot happier that it isn't a whole steering assembly out job although I've also seen that the key barrel is pinned into the rest of it IF you can get the pin out - phew !

It was dark when I got home so have not been able to compare instrument clusters to see if the one I've just 'won' is the same but I had it in mind that it was much the same area of access, if it's the same cluster re soldering is the first job of all.

I rebuilt the ignition / lighting switch on the old Fordson last year (she is on the road again after many years with Head blow, lights, charging battery, brakes and numerous other areas of long neglect or leakage repaired) so still have my eye in for barrel jobs :0

Rick in the chilly Boglands
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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 02:05   #35
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Most of the 7/9xx range have ignition barrels where you insert the key, turn to position 1 then push a pin in on the bottom of the outer barrel and you can then pull the key and inner barrel out.

The pin that is pushed into the top of the barrel is a lot harder to get out, i bought a late 945 lock set for my 760 and had intended to swap the igniton barrels but have so far been thwarted by that damned pin in the 940 lock. I have the pin under the barrel on the 760 so just need to push that in with the key in position 1 to be able to remove the barrel - easy enough and takes minutes not hours!

I just hope when i do get the barrel out of the late 940 steering lock i can fit it to the 760 steering lock!

Good to hear you've managed to keep yourself busy with your tractors, as for the bit broken off your tibia, i hope it's healed and the broken bit of bone wasn't dissolved by the ankle joint fluids? If so you'll be in a world of pain and very unsteady on your feet and unable to walk more than a few paces without resting because of the pain. I'm missing a bit of bone on the talus (ankle bone) where it meets the tib so have exposed nerves that are constantly aggravated by the tibia plus other associated problems (for example the fact the joint no longer moves correctly constantly sprains the ligaments, the joint is inherently unstable and so on) so i can definitely relate to your pain and lack of movement!

I'm sure you've got a spare door mirror glass floating around somewhere, an LED head-torch is also incredibly useful!
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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 16:42   #36
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Here you are Rick :



Part numbers 1324628 and 828120, seems both are likely to apply. As in one or t'other of them will find the same part at Volvo.

This one is nice and tight between the plastic and alloy body parts so should still be a working one.
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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 19:14   #37
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Thanks Dave

Mirror not usually a problem as a dentist type on a telescopic shaft normally lives in the toolbox in the car, I've used it somewhere and not returned it but I have another in the workshop for when I go back.

The whole assembly looks as if it was fitted using those screws where the heads wring off at a particular torque, I guess it's a security thing, presume you drill the remains out although I was going to grind through the bracket so I can do it under the drill press, saves making a boo boo when it comes to the one on the car - it's those concealed plastic fixings which drive me nuts, one of the thinks I've taken from the donor is the tailgate, mine has some nasty dinges in the skin and the inner liner flaps about as so many of the poppers have been trashed (luckily the same colour)

Your warning of Volvo's Heinz 57 approach to the actual switch noted and appreciated - as is the spare if the right one.

Just back from a regular diabolic check up at the N&N, just the white stuff missing from it being Beast from the East weather ! It'll need to be a bit better before I go back to the farm for t he next bit of butchery !

Ironically, I had no pain at or near the break (median malleolus) but lots in the outer joint, I thought it was a soft tissue problem right up to the point that I saw the Rickogram showing a big chunk displaced by about 10mm and rotated by about 10 degrees, the radiographer couldn't believe I'd walked in on it and promptly banned me from driving. It has certainly cramped my style, thankfully a good mate trailered the tractor over from it's usual home (I've found it was built the same week I was born) so it has been do a bit, sit and read a bit, I've managed most things slowly but so far anything needing a ladder has had to take back seat

Let you know how I get on with the switch
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Old Jan 14th, 2020, 20:18   #38
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The whole assembly looks as if it was fitted using those screws where the heads wring off at a particular torque, I guess it's a security thing,
The shear-head bolts are only used to secure the steering lock to the column Rick. The "time honoured" method of removal is with a chisel, locate the point of the chisel on the right hand side as viewed of the sheared head and first give it a whack with the persuader to dig a groove into it then reposition the chisel so the next whack will start to unscrew it.

Once loose, they can usually be undone with fingers or at worst, a decent pair of pliers.

Either way you can get the switch out without removing the steering lock.
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Old Jan 19th, 2020, 01:55   #39
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Didn't do much other than restore a boot full of tools to their respective homes and remove and grade out the 'plunder', we had an unexpected visitor Dave!

Two apparently working lights wiper motors along with a pair of useable rear light clusters, a sound washer water reservoir to clean and add to the stores along with the steering lump, the switch is stamped the same as yours, 828120.

I've also solved the having to crawl down the 'stores' car and leaving room to get to the inside boot latch, have tied a length of cord to the handle, run it through the RH hold down loop near the light cluster and run forward so I can now yank on that to open the boot (outside release long frozen solid) this allows for more intensive parts storage

Tomorrow is another day to become one with the earth, in any form of wiring connection

Rick
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Old Jan 19th, 2020, 02:38   #40
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Sounds like a productive day Rick! Now you've had some practice removing the dtarter switch, might pay to remove the potentially troublesome one and check the part number and if they're the same, fit the one from the parts mule.

Now you've said the instrument lights are working, probably won't help much chasing those earths which saves you grovelling in the footwell at least.

I'd be looking more at the instrument cluster, particularly the solder joints on the PCB on the back. Usual thing of checking the multiplugs as well on the back of the cluster to make sure all the connections are clean and tight.

I had to do a similar thing with a piece of clear strimmer line when my door lock packed up so can guess at what you've done - at least it's secure!
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