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C70 D5 180 Remap 250bhp Dual Mass Flywheel Concerns

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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 18:44   #1
spaceass
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Cool C70 D5 180 Remap 250bhp Dual Mass Flywheel Concerns

Hi there
I have C70 2008 D5 Sport with upgraded suspension and new timing belt with 67500 on the clock. The car is booked for a remap and there are two choices of 225bhp or 250bhp. Considering this is most likely the last combustion engine car I'll own, I would love to take this engine and car to the limit to experience the full potential. My concerns, however, are the effects of improved torque and power on the Dual Mass Flywheel and other transmission components. My other concern would be on operating systems such as Turbo and Intercooler.

Does anyone have any thoughts and information as to the limits of these components? Should I play safe with the middle ground and opt for a remap to 225bhp??
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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 18:51   #2
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Hi there
I have C70 2008 D5 Sport with upgraded suspension and new timing belt with 67500 on the clock. The car is booked for a remap and there are two choices of 225bhp or 250bhp. Considering this is most likely the last combustion engine car I'll own, I would love to take this engine and car to the limit to experience the full potential. My concerns, however, are the effects of improved torque and power on the Dual Mass Flywheel and other transmission components. My other concern would be on operating systems such as Turbo and Intercooler.

Does anyone have any thoughts and information as to the limits of these components? Should I play safe with the middle ground and opt for a remap to 225bhp??

People love to comment and wheel out the old chestnuts of ‘the manufacturer plays it safe’, keep it serviced and you can get much more power from it.

The simple truth is that you can’t remap something from 180 to 250 bop and remain within all safe limits.

If it were me and I wanted it I would go 250bhp as the not inconsiderable issues you may face when insuring will be no different between 225bhp and 250bhp (unless you don’t tell them in which case you won’t receive a payout when you need to).

If I wanted it I would buy the 250bhp version and accept that you may have to pay for a new clutch and DMF, I doubt 225 to 250 is likely to make it more or less reliable it’s more how it’s dumping power that was clearly not designed from the outset for.

I am not actually anti chipping but you have to accept that you are now getting a geezer with a laptop to change a few dozen parameters in a jail broken ECU and are likely to find it more expensive in terms of insurance and repairs.
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Old Apr 20th, 2019, 13:56   #3
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Thanks for your thoughts and I tend to agree with comments about the likelihood and possibility of replacement clutch and flywheel. Jumping from 180 to 225 is a 25% improvement which I think would be an adequate increase in power. From 225 to 250 is a 10% increase and I feel that latter improvement would be barely noticeable with too much stress on components.

The idea of 250bhp on demand is very tempting though.
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Old Apr 20th, 2019, 16:20   #4
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Thanks for your thoughts and I tend to agree with comments about the likelihood and possibility of replacement clutch and flywheel. Jumping from 180 to 225 is a 25% improvement which I think would be an adequate increase in power. From 225 to 250 is a 10% increase and I feel that latter improvement would be barely noticeable with too much stress on components.

The idea of 250bhp on demand is very tempting though.
Don’t forget if you drive with 180bhp in a silly way people destroy clutches in 40k. If you don’t dump it off the line you will probably find 250bhp will give you plenty of mid range torque and power.
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Old Apr 20th, 2019, 20:19   #5
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I had an MTE remap at 57k ish (I have a thread on here somewhere) on my C70 D5 manual. Immediately exposed a weak clutch.

135k I needed a new gearbox, both driveshafts, and another clutch and DMF (had been slipping for a little while). Yes I used the power and torque, but why map it if you don't intend to?

For context I have never had to change a clutch in a car, and have taken some up to 200k.

Tuner figures are also not comparable to OEM power figures. On a good day, with low temps, and the car not heatsoaked you may briefly make 250bhp. On a hot day, with a hot engine and heat soaked intercooler you won't. Remember that Volvo detuned the D5 from 185bhp to 180bhp in these C1 platform cars due to thermal management issues.

The car is too damned slow with 180bhp IMHO, but don't expect a remapped car to have the durability of a standard one. Most tuners "it'll do 250bhp" claims mean that it did a few hundred miles in that state of tune without going bang, and made those figures on a rolling road dyno. It is an absolute universe away from the standards of durability and consistent power output that a manufacturers engine calibration must meet.

Volvo used a second turbo and extensively re-engineered the D5 to make 220bhp in it's very last iteration in cars with much bigger radiators and intercoolers than the C70. Make of that what you will.
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Old Apr 20th, 2019, 22:48   #6
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I had an MTE remap at 57k ish (I have a thread on here somewhere) on my C70 D5 manual. Immediately exposed a weak clutch.

135k I needed a new gearbox, both driveshafts, and another clutch and DMF (had been slipping for a little while). Yes I used the power and torque, but why map it if you don't intend to?

For context I have never had to change a clutch in a car, and have taken some up to 200k.

Tuner figures are also not comparable to OEM power figures. On a good day, with low temps, and the car not heatsoaked you may briefly make 250bhp. On a hot day, with a hot engine and heat soaked intercooler you won't. Remember that Volvo detuned the D5 from 185bhp to 180bhp in these C1 platform cars due to thermal management issues.

The car is too damned slow with 180bhp IMHO, but don't expect a remapped car to have the durability of a standard one. Most tuners "it'll do 250bhp" claims mean that it did a few hundred miles in that state of tune without going bang, and made those figures on a rolling road dyno. It is an absolute universe away from the standards of durability and consistent power output that a manufacturers engine calibration must meet.

Volvo used a second turbo and extensively re-engineered the D5 to make 220bhp in it's very last iteration in cars with much bigger radiators and intercoolers than the C70. Make of that what you will.
I think the tuning world is pretty dubious.
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Old Apr 21st, 2019, 21:42   #7
DAN AT ADRIAN FLUX
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Hi.
If you do have any issues with insurance at all for a re-map then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.
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Old Apr 22nd, 2019, 09:55   #8
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With diesels it's the torque and where it comes in that makes a difference. Bhp tends to be all at max revs which isn't much use.
Look at the rolling road print outs they are suggesting, a cliff wall of torque makes the driving experience less pleasurable than a gradual build up from 1000 rpm onwards.
My jaguar diesel (sounds wrong doesn't it?) became a bit point and shoot.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2019, 13:26   #9
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Thanks for your input. I had read a couple of years back somewhere on this forum that they had reduced power due to less space in the engine bay for the turbo intercooler... This had originally concerned me about any form of remapping until I discovered there is a Polestar upgrade which improves power to about 215bhp and extra 50Nm Torque. The problem being with this age of car and value is the £850 cost.

After considerable thought, I've opted for the 25% improvement which gives 225bhp and 50Nm Torque advantage. With this compromise, I feel the components should be durable and able enough to withstand the increased torque and also the fact I don't stomp my foot down everywhere.
Due attention shall be paid to components and also allowing the engine to cool at idle at the end of coastal sightseeing boosts though!!

Thanks again for your thoughts. They have helped with my decision 👌
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Old Apr 23rd, 2019, 13:32   #10
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I am aware of the difference between power and torque. Torque truly is the concern and what shifts the weight but the bhp is gonna determine the speed of which it is delivered and the temperature of components. I guess like most things in life it is about striking a compromise.
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d5 250bhp, dual mass flywheel, performance, remap


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