Information: A sad thing - speeding fine

[alsner]

Originally Posted by alsner

Speeding is not an absolute, I've overtaken police cars before now on A roads at 70+ on motorbikes and haven't been pulled once for it.

ALi

After careful thought and re-reading I strongly suggest you do not represent yourself or the judge will probably throw the book at you. Do take legal advice. I apologise, speeding is an absolute in the eyes of the police but you did have a real fear for your safety and other road users. There may be loop holes you can exploit in these mitigating circumstances.

A solicitor will advise you best then act accordingly..

Best of luck regardless

Ali

Originally Posted by Mehboob

Just got a speeding fine doing 145km/h in a 80km/h zone. Fine is almost the same amount as my monthly installments man am I now broke.

What a waste !

could have been worse ,the way things have gone down there they might have decided the old dunlop necklace was in order

[Jod T5]

Originally Posted by chow

could have been worse ,the way things have gone down there they might have decided the old dunlop necklace was in order

lmao.....
cheers
jod

[liuleichan]

Originally Posted by alsner

Man thats really bad, I feel for you, idoits like that shouldn't get away with it and it's wrong that you should pay the price. Technically you can break the speed limit if overtaking and then go back to the normal limit but I'm not sure how it stands because you were on a dual carrageway that may be the case breaker. Either way, very bad luck.

Um, technically you can't break the limit - not for any of the things you mention. Best not to argue against that.

Truly, in court, it will be considered an absolute - especially given the mitigation cited here.

And don't get me wrong - I'm not being judgemental, or unrealistic. I'm just attempting to stress what will likely happen.

Were it something like questioning the evidence, or the procedure used - you'd have a tough time - especially in court, but prior to that, there's some history of such thoroughness having the police drop it before it hits court.

But in the scenario that the OP cited, I honestly think the fixed penalty would have been by far the optimum outcome.

If you want your day in court, to register your protest, and the circumstances, then so be it. But I very much doubt it will have any bearing on the outcome.

As other people have said, seek legal counsel.

But realistically, there's not much you can do to argue against something that will be considered an absolute.

Originally Posted by alsner

Best of luck with the case in court hopefully the judge will at least listen to your side of the events.

Judge / magistrate, may well listen, may well ignore. Either way I doubt it will have much bearing.

Originally Posted by alsner

Get a good solicitor on the case may be worth it. You can always change your plea after taking legal advice before the court date.

For sure, take legal advice.

Originally Posted by alsner

Speeding is not an absolute,

I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong about that.

Originally Posted by alsner

I've overtaken police cars before now on A roads at 70+ on motorbikes and haven't been pulled once for it.

Completely irrelevant.

That has no bearing, whatsoever, as to how this would be viewed when evaluated in court.

[CTCNetwork]

Hi,

What happens in court will very much depend on the day.

Someone managed (via a good solicitor) to get their case thrown out pecause the officer giving evedence was chewing gum!

Good legal advice would be highly recommended.
Being prepaired is paramount.

Originally Posted by johnmorl

Despite my explanation to the cop and her admission that she didn't see what had happened, I got a ticket.

Is she sure it was your car she was checking? Ask her in court as she will have to be there.
Your statment regarding the events should include an acurate description of events and your discussion with the officer following them. . .

You may get a considerate magistrate..

Luck,

Des. . .

[Psychobiker]

I was born in Durban

Boet, why didn't you just shoot the cop?!

L

[alsner]

Originally Posted by liuleichan

I'm sorry Liulechan but did you read my later post?

Just for reference I'm not the one who got caught. I've got a clean licence and has been clean for 12+ years now and no I don't have anything pending.

The advice given about overtaking was the same advice I was given 10 years ago by a police officer (motorway patrol for 20+ years) I worked with for a while. if this information is wrong then I apologise for misleading anyone on the board.

Hey, I don't pretend to know all about the law I can only go by past experiences and I've never been pulled for overtaking a police car in my car or as stated on a bike.

I do know that unless "EVERYTHING" was done by the book there are many technicalities that a good solicitor will use in in an attempt to quash any case that be presented before a judge. The thing is a lot of people just bow and take the fixed penelty. Hence why I stressed not to represent yourself to the person concerned.

If you can't break the speed limit by the description given, How can you? as you infer.... I'll give you one to start with,

Ref The Money Program this year.. E.g If the sign notifiying you of a limit change isn't of correct colour, size and background effectively they are useless in the eyes of the court. But you will have to argue the case in court.

A lot of local councils signage are not legal and there-fore can be argued out of court on a technicality. Same with parking regulations, they have to be by the book as well.

The law is a fickle thing and not as total as we are all led to believe. Motorists are starting to fight back and the authorities are starting to take notice.

ALi

[liuleichan]

Originally Posted by alsner

The advice given about overtaking was the same advice I was given 10 years ago by a police officer (motorway patrol for 20+ years) I worked with for a while. if this information is wrong then I apologise for misleading anyone on the board.

It's one thing to pragmatically realise that it's rather unlikely that traf pol won't likely pull you for speeds that aren't that much above the limit, and also, to appreciate the ACPO guidelines for speed enforcement.

However, accepting all that, once you've been booked for it, it's rather absolute. You can attempt to question procedure and standards if you like. But in court, unless you've got a very skilled lawyer, and assuming it's not something in the extreme that could get you a ban, then it's quite likely that a fixed penalty is the best solution.

Originally Posted by alsner

Hey, I don't pretend to know all about the law

Me neither.

[QUOTE=alsner;143443]I can only go by past experiences and I've never been pulled for overtaking a police car in my car or as stated on a bike./QUOTE]

As I said, it's one thing to suggest that you're unlikely to get stopped for speeds that aren't much different from the speed limit, or the prevailling speed of traffic around. That has no relation, though, to once a ticket hits court / the magistrates.

Originally Posted by alsner

I do know that unless "EVERYTHING" was done by the book there are many technicalities that a good solicitor will use in in an attempt to quash any case that be presented before a judge.

OK - question procedure and standards - and you'll need an expensive, skilled and specialised brief - and even then, you're going to need good grounds.

Originally Posted by alsner

The thing is a lot of people just bow and take the fixed penelty.

Oh absolutely. But when you know you were above the speed limit, and speeding is an absolute offence, then if offered a fixed penalty, it's rather hard to see any better side, unless you are willing and need to spend a lot of money on some elaborate defence.

Originally Posted by alsner

Hence why I stressed not to represent yourself to the person concerned.

Couldn't agree more.

All I would say, is that if you know you were speeding, and have been offered a fixed penalty - what are you likely to have as a defence?

Originally Posted by alsner

If you can't break the speed limit by the description given, How can you?

As a normal member of the public - you can't - at least as a defence. Mitigation, might be something like to save somebody's life, or urgent medical attention required for a passenger. Even then, that's only mitigation, that MIGHT be taken into account.

Originally Posted by alsner

as you infer.... I'll give you one to start with,

Ref The Money Program this year.. E.g If the sign notifiying you of a limit change isn't of correct colour, size and background effectively they are useless in the eyes of the court. But you will have to argue the case in court.

That's a different kettle of fish - that's not mitigation - per se - for breaking the speed limit - that's a defence that the supposed speed limit wasn't correctly signed or notifed, therefore wasn't valid.

Originally Posted by alsner

A lot of local councils signage are not legal and there-fore can be argued out of court on a technicality.

Possibly - but that's not a defence against breaking the speed limit, per se. That's a defence that the speed limit wasn't in place validly, therefore, no offence took place.

[bigandquick]

Section 139 of the Highway Code states that you 'should overtake quickly'. Therefore if you were to overtake a vehicle travelling at 55mph in a 60mph zone without breaking the limit you would not be complying with that section. So either you don't attempt the overtake or you take a chance.
When I was taking my blue light course my instructor maintained you were allowed to 'steal' a few mph to enable a safe overtake, as long as you dropped back to the road limit or below once the manouvre was completed.
I too overtake police patrols on motorways.Travelling on the A14M between Huntingdon and Peterborough it's not hard to spot a police patrol - they're about 400 yards ahead of four lanes of traffic all travelling at 60mph! It seems half of drivers don't know what the seed limits are. You're unlikely to get nicked overtaking a police car tavelling at 60mph and you doing 70mph (talking motorways). Same as those drivers who slam their brakes on at speed camera locations when they're already travelling well within the limit.
I digress. It's worth arguing the point. Can't make the punishment any worse if you're found guilty.
As for absolutes and discretion. Yes, the speed limit may be an absolute, but the speed at which it is decided to apprehend you is not. In Cambs the cameras are normally set at limit+10%+2mph. So in a 40mph zone you wouldn't get snapped at less than 46mph. This is to allow for speedo inaccuracies and an element of discretion, allegedly. Other forces set lower limits.
My sat nav insists my speedo is fast by 5mph. In which case I could travel quite happily down the A14 at 83mph!

[alsner]

Originally Posted by liuleichan

All above

I stand down. You have made some very valid points, all the best and enjoy the rest of the weekend.

I guess the moral of the story is ..

Don't get knicked!!!

ALi

I wish I could work out the multi quotes its great.