Amazon: - Front suspension noise.... - Page 2

222s · Oct 23rd, 2009, 23:22

Just realised that in order to set the torque, I'll need the right socket - what size is the front hub nut? For the rear hub nut, I just use a huge adjustable spanner!

222s · Oct 24th, 2009, 11:55

The Haynes manual says 22 lb/ft for the nut (& is very strict about saying do not exceed this), but the Volvo manuals say 50lb/ft......

Derek UK · Oct 24th, 2009, 12:39

Actually the Green Book says 50 ft/lbs and then back off 1/3 of a turn. If the hole doesn't line up for the split pin slacken further until it does. This means that the running clearance for the bearings is "loose". I'd suspect that after you'd backed it off that 1/3 of a turn, the nut would feel little more than finger tight, as long as the bearing hadn't been disturbed and was still seated by the 50lbs of torque. If going by Haynes I think I'd torque them up hard, give them a good spin back and forth, loosen the nut a bit, then retorque to 26lbs.
I bet that very few front bearings have been set with a torque wrench anyway!

Paul, have you recently put new pads in? Do you have a rusty lip on the discs? The combination can make nasty noises, especially if the any of the 3 caliper pistons are taking a bit of extra pressure to do their work. One might even be seized. Worse, two might be seized!

222s · Oct 24th, 2009, 17:28

Wheel bearing seemed fine, and I do agree about the nut feeling not tight enough when fitted correctly.

However the bottom ball joint on that side was utterly knackered - loads of play and also the movement in it was rough. Just finished replacing that, so will see if that has solved everything!

Many thanks for all the tips & advice!

ClassicVolvoShop · Oct 24th, 2009, 20:20

Paul,
Thanks for the response! And well done!

I would just like to comment, that it all makes good sence - when brakes are apllied, rather huge forces are on the lower ball joint due to the wheel and front spindle sort of dragged in the opposite direction of the movement.

In danish language - we call the upper ball joint "carrying ball joint" and lower ball joint the "steering ball joint" - in the light of forces on the front suspension under acceleration and de-acceleration - it's quite logical that the upper ball joint just carries - whereas the lower ball joint gets to handle the G-forces sideways (front/back). The upper caries the weight - the lower controls the spindle. (And as I have wondered myself when younger - That's why the lower ball joint is twice as big as the upper).

Therefore my tip on how to jack up the car (under the lower ball joint) - if one had jacked up the car say under the front subframe- one wouldn't have released the weight on the suspension itself - and therefore not on the ball joints.

Am I nerdy now?...

222s · Oct 25th, 2009, 01:46

Been out in the car this eve, and the steering is soooo much smoother! No notchiness and much lighter when parking. However, rather annoyingly, that noise is still there..... At least the day wasn't wasted though!

Despite my earlier thoughts that it wasn't, I'm now convinced that it is rotational.

Derek - the pads are about 18 months old. No wear lip on the discs either, but the outer edge is a little bit rusty. Until a week ago, I hadn't used the car for about a month, so I guess a siezed piston wouldn't be out of the question. However it seems to pull up straight during a few emergency stops from about 40mph - would that eliminate the pistons?

Derek UK · Oct 25th, 2009, 12:49

I'm glad you've at least found something wrong, even if it hasn't cured your original problem. The new joint will keep the MOT man happy too.
If you weren't getting the graunch before the 1 month lay up it could be a piston, maybe a similar amount of partial seizure both sides if your braking is even. Probably more even now that the joint is done. Discs flash rust overnight in damp weather and we've had a bit of that lately and sometimes the pads don't clean it off evenly. Might be worth checking to see what both sides of the discs look like. They should all be equally shiny but sometimes aren't. Uneven pad wear/uneven shine to a disc side might point to problems that side. I don't know if you're still using your kerbside workshop but giving the calipers a bit of a service might reveal something. Cleaning everything up with the pads out will enable you to check each piston for movement. A bit of copaslip on the pins and pad backs to finish off. Caliper mounting bolts should be VERY tight. Tab washer plate sometimes missing.
Good luck.

222s · Oct 26th, 2009, 00:34

Tab washers for the calipers are present & correct. Pad wear looks even, but any uneven wear from driving in London traffic isn't going to show up much any time soon!

The brakes certainly don't feel any worse than before, and pull the car up sharply. It did used to pull to one side sometimes, but the ball joint would certainly explain that. I think the noise is getting quieter, so perhaps some decent usage (I have been also been doing the occasional emergency stop when it has been safe to do so) is clearing things up. I will however pop the pads out to investigate further.

222s · Nov 17th, 2009, 17:22

A slightly late update....

Checked everything, but couldn't find anything obviously wrong. That noise has also now gone, so I can only assume that it was a slightly sticky caliper due to the month that I didn't use the car, and that it is no longer sticky. The brakes are certainly working properly though, as it pulls up straight from speed, and the front wheels can be locked up.

There is however a very occasional squeak / squeel (not worn pads - they have plenty of materal left) so presumably the pads need a smear of copperslip on the back?

Oct 23rd, 2009, 23:22	#11
222s Amazoniste Last Online: Sep 19th, 2016 21:52 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Emsworth View Photos By: 222s	Just realised that in order to set the torque, I'll need the right socket - what size is the front hub nut? For the rear hub nut, I just use a huge adjustable spanner! __________________ Paul - 1967 Amazon 222S B20 o/d Estate & 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc WANTED - For '67 Amazon estate - offside rear quarter, preferably new old stock.

Oct 24th, 2009, 11:55	#12
222s Amazoniste Last Online: Sep 19th, 2016 21:52 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Emsworth View Photos By: 222s	The Haynes manual says 22 lb/ft for the nut (& is very strict about saying do not exceed this), but the Volvo manuals say 50lb/ft...... __________________ Paul - 1967 Amazon 222S B20 o/d Estate & 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc WANTED - For '67 Amazon estate - offside rear quarter, preferably new old stock.

Oct 24th, 2009, 17:28	#14
222s Amazoniste Last Online: Sep 19th, 2016 21:52 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Emsworth View Photos By: 222s	Wheel bearing seemed fine, and I do agree about the nut feeling not tight enough when fitted correctly. However the bottom ball joint on that side was utterly knackered - loads of play and also the movement in it was rough. Just finished replacing that, so will see if that has solved everything! Many thanks for all the tips & advice! __________________ Paul - 1967 Amazon 222S B20 o/d Estate & 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc WANTED - For '67 Amazon estate - offside rear quarter, preferably new old stock.

Oct 24th, 2009, 20:20	#15
ClassicVolvoShop Schrödinger's Cat Cph! Last Online: Jan 5th, 2017 00:29 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Copenhagen	Paul, Thanks for the response! And well done! I would just like to comment, that it all makes good sence - when brakes are apllied, rather huge forces are on the lower ball joint due to the wheel and front spindle sort of dragged in the opposite direction of the movement. In danish language - we call the upper ball joint "carrying ball joint" and lower ball joint the "steering ball joint" - in the light of forces on the front suspension under acceleration and de-acceleration - it's quite logical that the upper ball joint just carries - whereas the lower ball joint gets to handle the G-forces sideways (front/back). The upper caries the weight - the lower controls the spindle. (And as I have wondered myself when younger - That's why the lower ball joint is twice as big as the upper). Therefore my tip on how to jack up the car (under the lower ball joint) - if one had jacked up the car say under the front subframe- one wouldn't have released the weight on the suspension itself - and therefore not on the ball joints. Am I nerdy now?... __________________ '64 131, '64 221, '64 222, '96 945 Last edited by ClassicVolvoShop; Oct 24th, 2009 at 20:23.

Oct 25th, 2009, 01:46	#16
222s Amazoniste Last Online: Sep 19th, 2016 21:52 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Emsworth View Photos By: 222s	Been out in the car this eve, and the steering is soooo much smoother! No notchiness and much lighter when parking. However, rather annoyingly, that noise is still there..... At least the day wasn't wasted though! Despite my earlier thoughts that it wasn't, I'm now convinced that it is rotational. Derek - the pads are about 18 months old. No wear lip on the discs either, but the outer edge is a little bit rusty. Until a week ago, I hadn't used the car for about a month, so I guess a siezed piston wouldn't be out of the question. However it seems to pull up straight during a few emergency stops from about 40mph - would that eliminate the pistons? __________________ Paul - 1967 Amazon 222S B20 o/d Estate & 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc WANTED - For '67 Amazon estate - offside rear quarter, preferably new old stock.

Oct 24th, 2009, 12:39	#13
Derek UK VOC Member Last Online: Yesterday 13:31 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chatham	Actually the Green Book says 50 ft/lbs and then back off 1/3 of a turn. If the hole doesn't line up for the split pin slacken further until it does. This means that the running clearance for the bearings is "loose". I'd suspect that after you'd backed it off that 1/3 of a turn, the nut would feel little more than finger tight, as long as the bearing hadn't been disturbed and was still seated by the 50lbs of torque. If going by Haynes I think I'd torque them up hard, give them a good spin back and forth, loosen the nut a bit, then retorque to 26lbs. I bet that very few front bearings have been set with a torque wrench anyway! Paul, have you recently put new pads in? Do you have a rusty lip on the discs? The combination can make nasty noises, especially if the any of the 3 caliper pistons are taking a bit of extra pressure to do their work. One might even be seized. Worse, two might be seized!

Oct 25th, 2009, 12:49	#17
Derek UK VOC Member Last Online: Yesterday 13:31 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chatham	I'm glad you've at least found something wrong, even if it hasn't cured your original problem. The new joint will keep the MOT man happy too. If you weren't getting the graunch before the 1 month lay up it could be a piston, maybe a similar amount of partial seizure both sides if your braking is even. Probably more even now that the joint is done. Discs flash rust overnight in damp weather and we've had a bit of that lately and sometimes the pads don't clean it off evenly. Might be worth checking to see what both sides of the discs look like. They should all be equally shiny but sometimes aren't. Uneven pad wear/uneven shine to a disc side might point to problems that side. I don't know if you're still using your kerbside workshop but giving the calipers a bit of a service might reveal something. Cleaning everything up with the pads out will enable you to check each piston for movement. A bit of copaslip on the pins and pad backs to finish off. Caliper mounting bolts should be VERY tight. Tab washer plate sometimes missing. Good luck.

Oct 26th, 2009, 00:34	#18
222s Amazoniste Last Online: Sep 19th, 2016 21:52 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Emsworth View Photos By: 222s	Tab washers for the calipers are present & correct. Pad wear looks even, but any uneven wear from driving in London traffic isn't going to show up much any time soon! The brakes certainly don't feel any worse than before, and pull the car up sharply. It did used to pull to one side sometimes, but the ball joint would certainly explain that. I think the noise is getting quieter, so perhaps some decent usage (I have been also been doing the occasional emergency stop when it has been safe to do so) is clearing things up. I will however pop the pads out to investigate further. __________________ Paul - 1967 Amazon 222S B20 o/d Estate & 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc WANTED - For '67 Amazon estate - offside rear quarter, preferably new old stock.

Nov 17th, 2009, 17:22	#19
222s Amazoniste Last Online: Sep 19th, 2016 21:52 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Emsworth View Photos By: 222s	A slightly late update.... Checked everything, but couldn't find anything obviously wrong. That noise has also now gone, so I can only assume that it was a slightly sticky caliper due to the month that I didn't use the car, and that it is no longer sticky. The brakes are certainly working properly though, as it pulls up straight from speed, and the front wheels can be locked up. There is however a very occasional squeak / squeel (not worn pads - they have plenty of materal left) so presumably the pads need a smear of copperslip on the back? __________________ Paul - 1967 Amazon 222S B20 o/d Estate & 1961 A-H Sprite Mk2 948cc WANTED - For '67 Amazon estate - offside rear quarter, preferably new old stock.

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