Audi & VW LED "pulsing" indicator design influence on Volvo

[Ian21401]

One of my pet hates is front indicators that are housed within the headlamp unit and are often invisible when the vehicle in question has headlamps lit. In the olden days when the indicator was in a separate unit they were much more obvious. ( as on my 1992 940 and many vehicles of an older vintage.) IIRC the road vehicle lighting regs used to state that an indicator must be optically separate from any other light. That’s why the dual intensity pulsing white sidelight/indicator light on the front of the likes of Morris Minors and Triumph Heralds were changed. The modern indicators may technically be “optically” separate but they certainly don’t appear to be.
Interesting point that steadyvex makes about hazard lights. Some drivers keep their hazard lights lit whilst parked in a lay-by. Fair enough. When another vehicle is parked behind them then often only the offside indicator is visible. If I was approaching in lane 1 and noticed a lone vehicle in a lay-by with it’s offside indicator lit l would, if circumstances permitted, move across into lane 2 so that the vehicle could pull out of the lay-by. However, if that vehicle is masked by another vehicle and only the offside indicator is visible then that is not an option. If the pulsing indicators remained fully lit when in the hazard mode then it would be possible to know whether the vehicle in question was wishing to move out or simply parked. Utopia I know.

[phil1968]

Originally Posted by Ian21401

One of my pet hates is front indicators that are housed within the headlamp unit and are often invisible when the vehicle in question has headlamps lit. In the olden days when the indicator was in a separate unit they were much more obvious. ( as on my 1992 940 and many vehicles of an older vintage.) IIRC the road vehicle lighting regs used to state that an indicator must be optically separate from any other light. That’s why the dual intensity pulsing white sidelight/indicator light on the front of the likes of Morris Minors and Triumph Heralds were changed. The modern indicators may technically be “optically” separate but they certainly don’t appear to be.
Interesting point that steadyvex makes about hazard lights. Some drivers keep their hazard lights lit whilst parked in a lay-by. Fair enough. When another vehicle is parked behind them then often only the offside indicator is visible. If I was approaching in lane 1 and noticed a lone vehicle in a lay-by with it’s offside indicator lit l would, if circumstances permitted, move across into lane 2 so that the vehicle could pull out of the lay-by. However, if that vehicle is masked by another vehicle and only the offside indicator is visible then that is not an option. If the pulsing indicators remained fully lit when in the hazard mode then it would be possible to know whether the vehicle in question was wishing to move out or simply parked. Utopia I know.

Yep & indicators that are drowned out by DRLs (that aren't dimmed on that side)

[GreenBrick]

Originally Posted by Arnold Layne

What are people's thoughts on the developments of pulsing indicators that you see on many new Audi's, VW's and even Toyota's?

We wouldn't want Volvo to appear to jump on the bandwagon as it were, by copying the design, but it does seem that the first requirement would be to have a design of linear indicators that are long enough to make a pulse work, which I don't think new Volvo's have, they seem to favour a square indicator, albeit made up of LED bulbs.

Would you fancy pulsing indicators on your Volvo? I note that it's relatively easy to do with bits available on ebay, if you wanted to modify your older Volvo.

I hate them...
Turning a legal requirement into something you put on your house at Christmas...
It's conspicuous consumption, showing you can spend more money than you need to, hence the owners probably exclusively only buy Apple Phones, Dyson vacuums, "designer stuff" and vanity plates.

Yes, you guessed it, I am NOT yet at the stage in my life where I can waste money for show...
Will I ever reach that position??
Probably not, as I hate waste, and public exhibitions of it.

Now where's the emoji of the bloke behind the sofa???

[canis]

Originally Posted by Ian21401

One of my pet hates is front indicators that are housed within the headlamp unit and are often invisible when the vehicle in question has headlamps lit.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Finally someone else has noticed!

Some headlamp clustyers are just downright dangerous. There is legislation about how much power the bulb consumes, but no legislation (as far as I'm aware, and judging by the invisibility of them it's fairly safe to presume) about actual brightness.

There ought to be legislation on how visible they are and at which angles. Just think how much effort is put into building regs regarind extentions and light availability for neighbouring windows, etc. Even a fog light gets more attention, being that it must be a certain distance away from a tail light.

The other day I passed a range rover reversing into the carriageway. I had no idea he was reversing until I actually passed him, again, the reversing lights weren't visible at that angle.

Why does nobody else notice this problem?

[green van man]

Leds are directional, it's why they are used in belisha beacons, streight on they are very bright, at an angle you hardly see them so as to not need shrouds to stop the neighbours complaining about light polution.
Why anyone ever thought they were a good idea on cars is beyond me.

Paul.

[Welton]

We all managed to dress ourselves this morning, we all know how to drive a car and we all know what a flashing indicator means, we don't need them to be 'pointy' for extra effect.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by green van man

Leds are directional, it's why they are used in belisha beacons, streight on they are very bright, at an angle you hardly see them so as to not need shrouds to stop the neighbours complaining about light polution.
Why anyone ever thought they were a good idea on cars is beyond me.

Paul.

That is no longer the case , For Automotive use they use wide angle LEDs now coupled with special reflectors and light guides as well as the actual "lens " ...
there is only light where it is needed now and more importantly not where it is not needed ...

[green van man]

Originally Posted by Clan

That is no longer the case , For Automotive use they use wide angle LEDs now coupled with special reflectors and light guides as well as the actual "lens " ...
there is only light where it is needed now and more importantly not where it is not needed ...

I take your word for it clan. However on my way home today VW golf ahead of me braking. I had no idea he was turning left untill he let off the brakes and did so. It was only then I could desern his indicator, with the brake lights lit it was invisible against them, wide angle leds or not.

He is braking, why is he braking? Oh I see he's turning left as opposed to he is brakeing while indicating left so I move to the right and overtake him if clear to do so while maintaining the flow of traffic. All because VW hide their indicators inside a brake light.

I don't care that a manufacturer thinks it's sufficient, indicators are there for the information of all road users, including pedestrians, if a pedestrian cannot see he intends turning left why would he wait to prove the fact before trying to cross the junction.
For me the above senario was a minor irritation, for the pedestrian whom crosses the junction possibly a broken pelvis and all the long term ramifications that in tails.


Paul.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by green van man

I take your word for it clan. However on my way home today VW golf ahead of me braking. I had no idea he was turning left untill he let off the brakes and did so. It was only then I could desern his indicator, with the brake lights lit it was invisible against them, wide angle leds or not.

He is braking, why is he braking? Oh I see he's turning left as opposed to he is brakeing while indicating left so I move to the right and overtake him if clear to do so while maintaining the flow of traffic. All because VW hide their indicators inside a brake light.

I don't care that a manufacturer thinks it's sufficient, indicators are there for the information of all road users, including pedestrians, if a pedestrian cannot see he intends turning left why would he wait to prove the fact before trying to cross the junction.
For me the above senario was a minor irritation, for the pedestrian whom crosses the junction possibly a broken pelvis and all the long term ramifications that in tails.


Paul.

Apparently they are certified and comply with the construction and use act, but so do navigation screens right in front of you in just about all cars now , it is the governing bodies which are at fault for allowing it . They never did allow TV images when you are moving but it's all the same . A distraction ...

[AndyJudge]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

I don't know whether it's still the case but the strobing indicators on VAG cars were a[quite expensive]option and not a standard fitment.Hence you can see some cars with them and others of the same model/year without them.

Aren't indicators an option full stop on Audi's & BMW's

I'll get me coat