240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I'm still curious about that £3,000 starting bid Rover 827 we were discussing the other day Dave. I notice there are still no bids on the auction, and I did email the chap to ask him whether he meant to MoT the car on sale (the answer was he had not even considered getting the car tested).

Anyway, I've just noticed this one sell for about a grand:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-827...53.m1438.l2649

... which seems about right to me - it looked like a better car than the £3,000 one with fewer faults, a good MoT and history.

I have no axe to grind, I'm just curious, but I'll monitor the £3,000 to the end of the auction.

Alan

That black one is a rare beast indeed! I just hope they used the correct antifreeze and a new tensioner (or tensioner spring at least) when they changed the timing belt and water pump.
Black was usually special order only and normally only for government duties. Even rarer the fact that it's manual.

I don't think he's going to get £3k for that Vitesse or anywhere near it, certainly not at the moment.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

That black one is a rare beast indeed! I just hope they used the correct antifreeze and a new tensioner (or tensioner spring at least) when they changed the timing belt and water pump.
Black was usually special order only and normally only for government duties. Even rarer the fact that it's manual.

I don't think he's going to get £3k for that Vitesse or anywhere near it, certainly not at the moment.

Ah, that is interesting. The seller claimed it was particularly rare, apart from the manual gearbox I didn't know why, but now I do. I'm sort of wondering why rarity would particularly make it valuable in this case - indeed I can't see that it has. A grand seems to be about the going rate for a 20-30 year old substantial car (BMW, MB, Rover, Volvo ...) with some good history and a current MoT, so it seems to have just made the going rate.

The Vitesse: I really can't see it being worth more than £300 without a MoT: it has been off the road for 18 months, needs new tyres, has been home serviced and has a number of faults... and that is without the national lock-down. If I didn't know better I'd say it was a £80 car for the destruction derby at the banger racing on a Thursday eve. The chap sounds desperate to sell, but without preparing the cars I don't think he is going to get anything much for them.

Not my problem - but I'm curious as to where prices of non-essential items (like cars without MoT certificates) are heading.

I watched a very nice one year old Omega Seamaster sell for £2400 (and it only attracted just one bid with seconds to go) yesterday. Someone would have paid about £3300 new (no one pays the RRP, which might have been £3900) a year ago, and 3 months ago it would have still sold for over £3000.

We live in difficult times,

Stay safe.

[Laird Scooby]

I agree Alan, the rarity doesn't make it more valuable except for someone wanting a black, manual "povo-spec" 827.

People like that are hard to find!

Most insurers won't view it as a classic either so they'll pay through the nose for insurance for a few years at least, assuming they ever do recognise the lower spec models as being classics due to age etc.

There's usually someone who will save a Vitesse simply because it is a Vitesse but not always. That said, for one without MoT or even having been i regular use, the price is rock bottom at the moment, even for nice ones.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I agree Alan, the rarity doesn't make it more valuable except for someone wanting a black, manual "povo-spec" 827.

People like that are hard to find!

Most insurers won't view it as a classic either so they'll pay through the nose for insurance for a few years at least, assuming they ever do recognise the lower spec models as being classics due to age etc.

There's usually someone who will save a Vitesse simply because it is a Vitesse but not always. That said, for one without MoT or even having been i regular use, the price is rock bottom at the moment, even for nice ones.

I’m learning a bit about 827s, very interesting, I’m pretty sure one of my neighbours at our old house in Norfolk still has one - I can’t remember what was wrong with it (but a circuit board that controls the AC rings a bell, could that be right?). I think John had almost given up with the car, but if I pop over there during the summer (once this Kung Flu is over) I might have a look at it and see if it worth saving.

The Vitesse owner seems to think it will just sell itself and so he need not bother to prepare it, the world will beat a path to his door. I think he has a rude awakening to come in about 2 days time. I just can’t see anyone starting the bidding at £3,000 for a can without a MoT (that is not an E type etc).

Stay safe.

[john.wigley]

'Evening, chaps. I don't know if it is significant or not, but I noticed that the black car was offered for sale in Coalville. That is just up the road from me and, as the name implies, it is a former mining town. Snibston Colliery (Snibbo) was for some time a mining museum until funding ran out. Although there are some £3-400k houses there, there is also a lot of poverty and cars are generally cheap there.

Regards, John.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I’m learning a bit about 827s, very interesting, I’m pretty sure one of my neighbours at our old house in Norfolk still has one - I can’t remember what was wrong with it (but a circuit board that controls the AC rings a bell, could that be right?). I think John had almost given up with the car, but if I pop over there during the summer (once this Kung Flu is over) I might have a look at it and see if it worth saving.

The Vitesse owner seems to think it will just sell itself and so he need not bother to prepare it, the world will beat a path to his door. I think he has a rude awakening to come in about 2 days time. I just can’t see anyone starting the bidding at £3,000 for a can without a MoT (that is not an E type etc).

Stay safe.

Depends what the symptoms are Alan, without even hearing them i'd straightaway be suspicious of a misdiagnosis and suggest the fusebox needs resoldering. Without knowing what year the car is (or if in fact it's definitely an 827) i will say that if the battery is disconnected at any point in time, make sure the keys are nowhere near the inside of the car, specifically not in the ignition.
Disconnecting the battery on some models with the keys in the ignition can render the car scrap.

The rude awakening draws closer!

Originally Posted by john.wigley

'Evening, chaps. I don't know if it is significant or not, but I noticed that the black car was offered for sale in Coalville. That is just up the road from me and, as the name implies, it is a former mining town. Snibston Colliery (Snibbo) was for some time a mining museum until funding ran out. Although there are some £3-400k houses there, there is also a lot of poverty and cars are generally cheap there.

Regards, John.

In fairness John, as the car was offered on ebay, it would have found its value regardless. That said, there is a bit of a "north/south divide" in car values.

A few years back a friend wanted a Lexus LS430, he specifically looked for one in Scotland as even with the cost of a taxi from his home in the middle of the night to the local train station, train from there to Norwich, bus/taxi ride from there to Norwich airport and a flight from there to Glasgow where the seller picked him up and fuel to drive back, it still enabled him to run it for a couple of years and then sell it locally at a profit.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Depends what the symptoms are Alan, without even hearing them i'd straightaway be suspicious of a misdiagnosis and suggest the fusebox needs resoldering. Without knowing what year the car is (or if in fact it's definitely an 827) i will say that if the battery is disconnected at any point in time, make sure the keys are nowhere near the inside of the car, specifically not in the ignition.
Disconnecting the battery on some models with the keys in the ignition can render the car scrap.

The rude awakening draws closer!


In fairness John, as the car was offered on ebay, it would have found its value regardless. That said, there is a bit of a "north/south divide" in car values.

You are so right Dave: I'm not even certain the car is an 827. I may give John (the owner) a call sometime - see if he and his lady are okay in this pandemic, and ask him what the car is (he was looking to unload it I think). I recall him telling me about it (over a beer) last summer and saying he'd laid up the car. I recall seeing him driving it a few years ago and it being rather a smart motor.

It would be a pity if it is BER because of an electrical fault (although, as you say, something very small could have rendered it scrap) - but I fear more and more modern machines will end up like that (unlike the Royal Barge - no electronics, big lumps of solder and wires).

I think you are right about the auction price - auctions do tend to be the acid test to discover the price of things. The black car sounded quite good from the description - but I take your point about it not being seen as a classic car by the insurers. If I was an underwriter and someone asked me to cover that car: not that old, fairly basic model, well serviced and cared for: I'd think someone wanted to commute to work in it, not treat it as a classic.

There is some truth in what John says about cheaper locations, I'm always on the lookout for interesting (but not expensive) bikes (although I have plenty of bikes at the moment there might be room for another if it was interesting enough). I do notice that bikes are much harder to sell in far flung places - that is one of the reasons I have a bike trailer. Part of it is logistics, the rest is local supply and demand.

Still no bids on the Vitesse (the ad says it is a Sterling - I'm guessing that is the same as a Vitesse?), which does not surprise me. I'm no Rover expert (but you are) - so I can't see why a car in that state (laid up for 18 months, needs tyres, no history, known faults, a long way from being 40 years old and no MoT) would command £3,000 when one may buy plenty of historic cars (like the Royal Barge) for rather less.

Stay safe.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

'Evening, chaps. I don't know if it is significant or not, but I noticed that the black car was offered for sale in Coalville. That is just up the road from me and, as the name implies, it is a former mining town. Snibston Colliery (Snibbo) was for some time a mining museum until funding ran out. Although there are some £3-400k houses there, there is also a lot of poverty and cars are generally cheap there.

Regards, John.

Hi John,

See above - there may be some truth in what you say - I'm guessing there would be a small market for a car like the black one - not near being an historic car, but probably a bit too old and obsolescent to be a commuter. Cars like that are in in no-man's-land I think, and hence don't make much money (Dave will know much more about Rovers than I though).

Stay safe.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

You are so right Dave: I'm not even certain the car is an 827. I may give John (the owner) a call sometime - see if he and his lady are okay in this pandemic, and ask him what the car is (he was looking to unload it I think). I recall him telling me about it (over a beer) last summer and saying he'd laid up the car. I recall seeing him driving it a few years ago and it being rather a smart motor.

It would be a pity if it is BER because of an electrical fault (although, as you say, something very small could have rendered it scrap) - but I fear more and more modern machines will end up like that (unlike the Royal Barge - no electronics, big lumps of solder and wires).

I think you are right about the auction price - auctions do tend to be the acid test to discover the price of things. The black car sounded quite good from the description - but I take your point about it not being seen as a classic car by the insurers. If I was an underwriter and someone asked me to cover that car: not that old, fairly basic model, well serviced and cared for: I'd think someone wanted to commute to work in it, not treat it as a classic.

There is some truth in what John says about cheaper locations, I'm always on the lookout for interesting (but not expensive) bikes (although I have plenty of bikes at the moment there might be room for another if it was interesting enough). I do notice that bikes are much harder to sell in far flung places - that is one of the reasons I have a bike trailer. Part of it is logistics, the rest is local supply and demand.

Still no bids on the Vitesse (the ad says it is a Sterling - I'm guessing that is the same as a Vitesse?), which does not surprise me. I'm no Rover expert (but you are) - so I can't see why a car in that state (laid up for 18 months, needs tyres, no history, known faults, a long way from being 40 years old and no MoT) would command £3,000 when one may buy plenty of historic cars (like the Royal Barge) for rather less.

Stay safe.

If you can find out exactly what the car is Alan (model, year, nature of fault etc) we might find it's simpler than is thought.

You're right about far-flung places, they do tend to knock a hole in the values of things, purely because of the logistics of collection.

My mistake, it is a Sterling, as i said before, to me the Fastback is always the Vitesse. They're not exactly the same, the Sterling got a few bits the Vitesse didn't and most of his fleet are Vitesse models so obviously the brain was in "general" mode last night.

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

In fairness John, as the car was offered on ebay, it would have found its value regardless. That said, there is a bit of a "north/south divide" in car values.

A few years back a friend wanted a Lexus LS430, he specifically looked for one in Scotland as even with the cost of a taxi from his home in the middle of the night to the local train station, train from there to Norwich, bus/taxi ride from there to Norwich airport and a flight from there to Glasgow where the seller picked him up and fuel to drive back, it still enabled him to run it for a couple of years and then sell it locally at a profit.

I agree that an on-line auction will normally have a leveling effect, 'L.S.', but I don't know from whence the winning bid was made. I would have thought that most people would not wish to travel any distance to buy a motor-car at the present time, though.

Coincidentally, like your friend, I bought my 245 GLT from someone who lived just outside of Glasgow. This was back in 1995, before the days of the internet and on-line auctions. The car was advertised by a club member in 'Volvo Driver'; telephone calls and a couple of photographs were exchanged, and I later went by train from Loughborough to Glasgow to collect it and drive it home. Soon afterwards, it made it's first of several trips to Scandinavia in my ownership. If I still had the car, in the condition that I bought it in, I too am sure that I could now sell it at a handsome profit!

Regards both, John.