240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Now if I was in the market for a £10k classic(ish) car I'd get this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lexus-LS-...IAAOSwlsteJYoa

... and certainly not that 827 we were discussing earlier :-)

Actually, this one looks nice for my type of budget:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Lexu...8AAOSwgFleP7K4

Wow! I;ve just read the ad again for that second one. That is a lot of car for much the same money as the Royal Barge! It doesn't have the same character as the RB though and it isn't 40 years old, also I doubt that I could insure it for £80/year ...

... also I'm happy with the Royal Barge :-)

Funnily enough i saw those the other day, wouldn't touch either with a barge pole (no offence RB!) as the first is overpriced and looks suspiciously like a grey import (first registered July 2001 according to DVLA!) , the second has been messed about with which often upsets the various suspension sensors and so on. Also the second was a Cat C write-off in 2014 according to the sellers listing.

Both are non-starters IMHO, despite their running status! Out of the three i'd rather have (or in your case, keep) the Royal barge. It might be older but it's honest older without hara-kiri skeletons in the closet (or boot!)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Funnily enough i saw those the other day, wouldn't touch either with a barge pole (no offence RB!) as the first is overpriced and looks suspiciously like a grey import (first registered July 2001 according to DVLA!) , the second has been messed about with which often upsets the various suspension sensors and so on. Also the second was a Cat C write-off in 2014 according to the sellers listing.

Both are non-starters IMHO, despite their running status! Out of the three i'd rather have (or in your case, keep) the Royal barge. It might be older but it's honest older without hara-kiri skeletons in the closet (or boot!)

I just noticed the Cat C bit in the second ad - I take your point.

Fortunately (for me) I agree about the Royal Barge and wouldn't swap it for anything much. Being 40 years old is an attraction for me (classic insurance, no MoT, no tax next year, no computers...) and it is full of character.

Alan

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Normally it's a pleasure to agree with you Alan but sad to say, i think you're spot on about peoples finances etc.
That said, maybe if i start saving now, i can afford to buy a Lexus LS400 come autumn time, i've always fancied one and while i wouldn't want to keep it long term, it's one of those "life itches" that needs scratching. A bit like owning the Jeep Cherokee that i had for a while.

'Afternoon, gents. I've been in the garage all morning sorting out stuff, so missed your interesting exchange re finances. I also concur, 'L.S.', perhaps it is our age and life experience?

Property has generally been regarded as an appreciating asset, unlike cars (with the possible exception of some classics), which generally lose money.

But it was ever thus. By virtue of our age and pension, we are fortunate enough to be reasonably comfortable. Buying in at 15% was a struggle, even with a (relatively) small loan, but the mortgage was thankfully paid off a good while ago. No, it is the 30 - 40 year olds, often with small families and big mortgages, who are totally dependent upon their earnings, that I feel really sorry for. I fear that they will know hardship the like of which we did not.

True, they may have unwisely extended themselves, but it is not entirely their fault. I believe that the 'cheap' loans in recent times may not have done them any favours in the longer term. The availability of low-cost finance, coupled with freely available credit cards, do little to encourage thrift, and have contributed much to the 'have now, pay later' society of today. It is this, I think, that the present circumstances will see come home to roost with a vengeance. But that is in hindsight, which trumps 20-20 every time.

Now, the garage awaits ...

Regards, John.

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

'Afternoon, gents. I've been in the garage all morning sorting out stuff, so missed your interesting exchange re finances. I also concur, 'L.S.', perhaps it is our age and life experience?

Property has generally been regarded as an appreciating asset, unlike cars (with the possible exception of some classics), which generally lose money.

But it was ever thus. By virtue of our age and pension, we are fortunate enough to be reasonably comfortable. Buying in at 15% was a struggle, even with a (relatively) small loan, but the mortgage was thankfully paid off a good while ago. No, it is the 30 - 40 year olds, often with small families and big mortgages, who are totally dependent upon their earnings, that I feel really sorry for. I fear that they will know hardship the like of which we did not.

True, they may have unwisely extended themselves, but it is not entirely their fault. I believe that the 'cheap' loans in recent times may not have done them any favours in the longer term. The availability of low-cost finance, coupled with freely available credit cards, do little to encourage thrift, and have contributed much to the 'have now, pay later' society of today. It is this, I think, that the present circumstances will see come home to roost with a vengeance. But that is in hindsight, which trumps 20-20 every time.

Now, the garage awaits ...

Regards, John.

Yes. "We" have seen several home price falls. It is arguable that we need a serious fall in prices as tough medicine. But. The damage of a serious home price crash might well be too high a price to pay. So the road forward must be a long road.

A lot of the current prices are very high because people with an interest in prices increasing have resulted in large loans which have driven up prices &c. &c. &c. Anyone seeking a home now is faced with high mortgage costs or high rent. EEK. Supply and demand has been fed by large loans driving prices up. And I wonder how many people having paid out their income in to the huge over time interest costs of a mortgage for purchase, are now paying the "profit" away in equity release interest to help their offspring. The finance &c. industry wins both ways.

Planning home moves on a financial basis is tricky. One change of circumstances in the future, and the whole profit making circus swings in to profit earning mode again. I detect that Othen can see some of the potential pitfalls awaiting in his 15 year old son's suggestion.

When it comes to financial juggling re homes, the dice are against the private individual.


.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

'Afternoon, gents. I've been in the garage all morning sorting out stuff, so missed your interesting exchange re finances. I also concur, 'L.S.', perhaps it is our age and life experience?

Property has generally been regarded as an appreciating asset, unlike cars (with the possible exception of some classics), which generally lose money.

But it was ever thus. By virtue of our age and pension, we are fortunate enough to be reasonably comfortable. Buying in at 15% was a struggle, even with a (relatively) small loan, but the mortgage was thankfully paid off a good while ago. No, it is the 30 - 40 year olds, often with small families and big mortgages, who are totally dependent upon their earnings, that I feel really sorry for. I fear that they will know hardship the like of which we did not.

True, they may have unwisely extended themselves, but it is not entirely their fault. I believe that the 'cheap' loans in recent times may not have done them any favours in the longer term. The availability of low-cost finance, coupled with freely available credit cards, do little to encourage thrift, and have contributed much to the 'have now, pay later' society of today. It is this, I think, that the present circumstances will see come home to roost with a vengeance. But that is in hindsight, which trumps 20-20 every time.

Now, the garage awaits ...

Regards, John.

You make some really good points John. I do so hope I'm wrong about house prices for the millions of people out there with very large mortgages who will then be unable to move in any direction - but I suspect I will not be, which is a pity.

You are right in that it is not entirely the individual's fault for becoming over-extended financially when there are so many incentives to do so (cheap money).

In the longer term property prices (be that buy or rent) will continue to increase because the population here in the UK goes up by 300,000 every year (as it has done since the 1950s). The reasons why it is going up don't matter, it is just a case of supply and demand, the demand goes up by the equivalent of 5 Corbys every year, but we live in a small place and don't want to pave it all over. Dan and I were talking about this this morn and concluded that Thomas Malthus was probably right - the population density is just too high, which is at the moment manifesting itself by assisting in the transmission of Covid-19.

I'm not sure whether much will change in the longer term - people will soon get back to really needing 75" TVs, but there might be a few years of hardship for a lot of people (and not just the poorest, the social welfare state will continue to protect them, but many better off people may end up losing most of what they have.

You are of course absolutely right about the value of 20-20 hindsight John!

Best wishes,

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Stephen Edwin

Yes. "We" have seen several home price falls. It is arguable that we need a serious fall in prices as tough medicine. But. The damage of a serious home price crash might well be too high a price to pay. So the road forward must be a long road.

A lot of the current prices are very high because people with an interest in prices increasing have resulted in large loans which have driven up prices &c. &c. &c. Anyone seeking a home now is faced with high mortgage costs or high rent. EEK. Supply and demand has been fed by large loans driving prices up. And I wonder how many people having paid out their income in to the huge over time interest costs of a mortgage for purchase, are now paying the "profit" away in equity release interest to help their offspring. The finance &c. industry wins both ways.

Planning home moves on a financial basis is tricky. One change of circumstances in the future, and the whole profit making circus swings in to profit earning mode again. I detect that Othen can see some of the potential pitfalls awaiting in his 15 year old son's suggestion.

When it comes to financial juggling re homes, the dice are against the private individual.


.

You also make some very good points Stephen. As I wrote to John above, the reason property prices keep going up is because the population keeps increasing: big demand, small supply. It would be (relatively) easy to pave over everything, but I don't think that is a good answer (... and what happens after everything is paved and the population still increases?).

Our generation (I'm 59, I'm thinking of people aged about 50-80) has tended to have made good money out of property, but we have also seen two very serious decreases in prices in our lifetimes. The one I think is coming will probably not be a disaster in the 10 year timescale, but some won't be able to sit it out that long.

House prices do worry me for Dan's generation - he and I sat down with an iPad and found the first house I bought in 1984, for £36,000 (which seemed a mountain at the time), and then did some research together to do a comparison. Mouseprice told us the same house would be worth £360,000 today, so 10 times inflation in 36 years. In 1984 I was a pretty well paid Army captain getting a bit of extra pay for this and that, probably earning around £12,000/year (I recall having to push the boat out to buy that first house, sell my car for the deposit and pushbike everywhere); the AFPRB informed us that the same captain would earn £42,000 today - so about 3.5 times wage inflation over the same period. The difference has been interest rates of course (as John pointed out) - 12-15% instead of 2-3%, but could that Army captain afford to by the same house at £360,000 today? We thought not, that would be 8.5 times his/her salary, even if the captain was prudent and had saved a 10% deposit (£36,000 would take some doing, quite a few Afghanistan tours) it would still be 7.5 multiples of his/her income, so it still wouldn't work.

Do you see why I'm worried for Dan's generation? (Dan himself won't have a problem - I have a plan for him).

Actually, Dan has me boxed into a corner over moving to a more expensive house. You are right in that if it was just me I'd probably stay where I am in this perfectly nice house with a double garage, motorbike garage and parking for 6-8 cars (the important things), but he knows we are cash rich at the moment and could take advantage of a slump in prices to get a property we (including Bob and Millicent the cat) might enjoy. That boy comes up with some quite compelling arguments (and as long as I get at least the same bike/car space I don't mind too much where we live).

Next post: back to Volvo cars!

:-)

Alan

[Othen]

After a few interesting tangents - back to Volvo cars:

The driver's seat in the Royal Barge had always been a bit uncomfortable, not too bad, but not as comfy as I remembered. The driver's chair had an adjustable lumbar support, that did seemed to have little effect apart from feeling lumpy at the back. It was a nice afternoon and I had nothing else to do (Dan and his mates are killing things on their PCs) so I took the chair out and took it apart.

First I noticed two of the springs that support the horizontal part of the seat fell out when I removed the seat, as did a few of the stringers. That was easy enough to put back together, nothing had broken or was missing, just a few bits of metal had slipped over the past 4 decades. Already there was a good improvement in the bum area.

Next I took a look at the lumbar support, I could feel bits floating around inside the seat so I took it apart (a few upholstery clips) and found this:



At some time in the past the 'U' shaped wire stringer at the top of the photo had broken and perhaps as a result the plastic part has snapped in two places. All the bits are still there, clearly two of them are beyond easy repair, but I could at least use them as patterns.

I've taken the bits out (so they no longer stick in my back) reassembled the seat and it is pretty comfortable as it is - in fact just like the passenger's chair (which does not have the adjustable lumbar support).

Options are:

a. just leave it, the chair seems okay as it is, better than it was previously.

b. pack in a bit more foam.

c. repair the broken bits and fix it.

d. replace the broken bit and fix it.

Replacement parts seem to be available (I've only found them in the USA so far, so the postage would make that option too expensive). I was thinking that in slow time I could repair the plastic bit by perhaps riveting another plate underneath, perhaps with some GRP to make it a bit stiffer, then just find some wire the same gauge as the stringer and re-install it.

I think I'll just try it as it is for a while, the chair seems okay for driving (but of course I can't try it out on a longer journey at the mo).

I'm wondering, has anyone come across this previously? If so will my plan just to leave the adjustable support be okay, or will I have to fix it?

Any advice appreciated (as always).

Alan

[Othen]

I'm guessing this is a common fault because I have just found a repair kit - exactly the right parts - on eBay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-240...4383.l4275.c10

but the price is, wait for it... £110 (ouch).

I think that is a bit more than it is worth, I'll either fix it myself using the original as a pattern or leave it as it is.

What do people think?

Alan

[john.wigley]

Just a thought, Alan, I'm no expert and am not speaking from experience, but if you decide on going down the repair route, is the plastic part something that you could reproduce on a 3D printer? There is a chap in our village who has a 'hobby' one, and he seems able to make just about anything if provided with a suitable pattern.

Regards, John.

[Laird Scooby]

A few thoughts Alan, first is :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1975-1993...t/372827170263

Granted it's a used one but much cheaper than the one in Greece. Both are likely to be for LHD cars, i'm not sure on the swappable credentials of them.

Second thought is along the lines of what John suggested but using a piece of aluminium the same thickness (or slightly thicker) than the plastic.

Third is Volvo dealer?

Fourth is a secondhand seat, colour won't matter, nor will general condition as long as the lumbar support works.

Fifth is a more general idea. Take a trip to your local carpet shop and buy a remnant of the 1/2" thick foam underlay. Besides being a useful source of 1/2" thick foam, it's also 3.5Tog rated.
When you next have the seat apart, cut a piece to size and fit it on top of the springs that support the seat base foam like this :



You can just see it there, covered in a white sort of mesh material. It's amazing how much difference that makes! It helps bolster the foam (no pun intended but only word i could think of!) and also increases the distance the foam occupies which means the covers get freshly stretched over it. This gives a newer, tauter feel to the covers which enhances the improvement in comfort.
As you can probably guess from the pic, that's a Rover seat from my Sterling. Shortly after i first did that, a friend who also happens to own a similar age Sterling came to pick up some seat covers and other bits (my originals - long story!) and i was telling him i'd added a little something extra to the seat. He asked me what so me being me, invited him to test the seat before i told him.
He couldn't believe the difference!
His were how mine used to be and sitting on them then back in mine, i knew i'd done the right thing.
When i replace the covers in my 760 and sort a couple of other seat niggles out, i'll be doing the same trick on that as well.