960/s90

[marky4]

I have just posted in the 144/164 thread something similar to this but are the S90 a good buy . I have seen a mint S90 for sale but its a bit expensive. I missed out on one on ebay at £1360 on a R plate

[capt jack]

I own a 1997 S90, and have done so for almost 5 years now.

Pluses are that the car is supremely smooth, quiet and comfortable, and in my experience reliable.

Downsides are the fuel consumption of 22-24mpg, rising to 30mpg on a long steady run, and the fact that some parts, especially interior trim etc are hard to come by. Also, the back seats don't fold, so long loads are a challenge. That said the boot is big and square - I can get my fishing rods in quite easily, with the longest section being 5 feet long.

The engine is a 6-cylinder version of the 5-pot 2.5 engine from the 850 series, with the added benefit of 4 valves per cylinder. It's placed N-S in the huge engine bay so access for most service tasks is easy, although the transmission dipstick is a stretch. Above all the car is very well-engineered, everything is big and built to last.

Compared with fwd drive cars it's a bit barge-like, but with the multilink suspension it does go round corners quite well.

It's a big, heavy and old-fashioned car, with its roots in the 700-series cars of the late 1980s. Compared with a modern car for example the handbrake is a bit of a bicep-builder, but then again almost all are automatics, so it's less of an issue.

Remember that the car was built as a luxury long distance cruiser, for people who didn't need to worry about fuel costs, and that's exactly what it's still good for today.

Price-wise you'll see all sorts advertised, but I'd have thought that anything much under £2k is possibly a bit cheap, anything over £3k, unless it's very special, is probably a bit expensive.

Jack

[marky4]

Originally Posted by capt jack

I own a 1997 S90, and have done so for almost 5 years now.

Pluses are that the car is supremely smooth, quiet and comfortable, and in my experience reliable.

Downsides are the fuel consumption of 22-24mpg, rising to 30mpg on a long steady run, and the fact that some parts, especially interior trim etc are hard to come by. Also, the back seats don't fold, so long loads are a challenge. That said the boot is big and square - I can get my fishing rods in quite easily, with the longest section being 5 feet long.

The engine is a 6-cylinder version of the 5-pot 2.5 engine from the 850 series, with the added benefit of 4 valves per cylinder. It's placed N-S in the huge engine bay so access for most service tasks is easy, although the transmission dipstick is a stretch. Above all the car is very well-engineered, everything is big and built to last.

Compared with fwd drive cars it's a bit barge-like, but with the multilink suspension it does go round corners quite well.

It's a big, heavy and old-fashioned car, with its roots in the 700-series cars of the late 1980s. Compared with a modern car for example the handbrake is a bit of a bicep-builder, but then again almost all are automatics, so it's less of an issue.

Remember that the car was built as a luxury long distance cruiser, for people who didn't need to worry about fuel costs, and that's exactly what it's still good for today.

Price-wise you'll see all sorts advertised, but I'd have thought that anything much under £2k is possibly a bit cheap, anything over £3k, unless it's very special, is probably a bit expensive.

Jack

Thanks for the reply , i had one quite a few years back a mk1 and it was superb im thinking of buying one to use now and then but more of an investment

[RollingThunder]

I've had a few 940 and 960s over the years, as both saloons and estates. Because of this I've noticed a few things that generally don't go mentioned...

The 940 generally feels a lighter car to drive. Its very noticable when you go from one to the other. I reckon the extra weight of the engine, the slightly heavier gearbox, the extra sound insulation and big heavy seats cause this. It makes the 960 feel a bit lumbering compared to a 940, even one with a similar leather upholstery spec, which has always confounded me

On the other hand, the 960 is far more civilised - the whiteblock engine is a fabulous unit and is every bit as reliable as the redblock if well maintained. Its the maintenance that differentiates the ongoing reliability - a redblock will continue running very well without maintenance, whereas a whiteblock tends to show it is unhappy a bit sooner. If a cambelt snaps on a redblock, its no big deal - the engine is (mostly) non-interference, whereas a snapped cambelt on a whiteblock is catastrophic as they're all interference engines and most have 20/24 valves (5/6 cyl).

Its pretty straightforward to improve the performance of a redblock turbo engine, and the bottom end is massively over engineered. The non turbo whiteblock engines are harder to tune and in truth you'll be pushed to get more than maybe 30-40 bhp more out of one without resorting to a turbo conversion.

Spares are becoming an issue as Capt Jack has mentioned. If you buy any 940/960/x90 you'll need to be prepared to search literally worldwide for some parts. Even then, some parts will not be available anywhere at any price, particularly if its an unusual item. The more mainstream models aren't quite so bad (but even then I understand standard x90 Nivomats are NLA), but this is the main issue that put me off buying an S90 Royal recently.

With my history of both 940s and 960s, would I buy a 960/S90? Absolutely! They're magnificent cars, just make sure you keep your eyes open when viewing - buy by condition not mileage. They're still under most people's radar, so prices haven't gone ballistic... yet. But I'm sure their time will come - you can't beat pukka Volvo build quality (ie when they were independent, pre-Ford & Geely), Porsche designed engines, and classic styling IMHO.

[marky4]

Originally Posted by RollingThunder

I've had a few 940 and 960s over the years, as both saloons and estates. Because of this I've noticed a few things that generally don't go mentioned...

The 940 generally feels a lighter car to drive. Its very noticable when you go from one to the other. I reckon the extra weight of the engine, the slightly heavier gearbox, the extra sound insulation and big heavy seats cause this. It makes the 960 feel a bit lumbering compared to a 940, even one with a similar leather upholstery spec, which has always confounded me

On the other hand, the 960 is far more civilised - the whiteblock engine is a fabulous unit and is every bit as reliable as the redblock if well maintained. Its the maintenance that differentiates the ongoing reliability - a redblock will continue running very well without maintenance, whereas a whiteblock tends to show it is unhappy a bit sooner. If a cambelt snaps on a redblock, its no big deal - the engine is (mostly) non-interference, whereas a snapped cambelt on a whiteblock is catastrophic as they're all interference engines and most have 20/24 valves (5/6 cyl).

Its pretty straightforward to improve the performance of a redblock turbo engine, and the bottom end is massively over engineered. The non turbo whiteblock engines are harder to tune and in truth you'll be pushed to get more than maybe 30-40 bhp more out of one without resorting to a turbo conversion.

Spares are becoming an issue as Capt Jack has mentioned. If you buy any 940/960/x90 you'll need to be prepared to search literally worldwide for some parts. Even then, some parts will not be available anywhere at any price, particularly if its an unusual item. The more mainstream models aren't quite so bad (but even then I understand standard x90 Nivomats are NLA), but this is the main issue that put me off buying an S90 Royal recently.

With my history of both 940s and 960s, would I buy a 960/S90? Absolutely! They're magnificent cars, just make sure you keep your eyes open when viewing - buy by condition not mileage. They're still under most people's radar, so prices haven't gone ballistic... yet. But I'm sure their time will come - you can't beat pukka Volvo build quality (ie when they were independent, pre-Ford & Geely), Porsche designed engines, and classic styling IMHO.

Thanks for the info , i just counted up and didn't realise i'm on my 16th Volvo starting with a 1980 244DL and now have a 2016 XC90 Inscription on air with Bowers and Wilkins Xenium and winter pack. I always wanted one of the last S90s but could never afford one or in total contrast a 164 E or TE . A TE went on ebay recently for around £1600 but way out of my league condition wise and a '97 S90 went for £1350 ish which looked pretty good. I also fancied a 264 but i know how dodgy that those V6s are.

[RollingThunder]

You've had about as many as me then - I didn't realise you were as experienced with them sorry. In that case, the only issue you might experience is parts availability - particularly rear suspension and trim, and possibly some under body rust.

Rear Nivomats can be replaced with coilovers from classicswede if you're not too worried about originality. Trimwise, just be patient and cast your net as wide as you can and you should find something eventually. The USA, Sweden and Germany tend to yield something IMHO. There is also a good following of these in the Philippines, Thailand and Japan

Good luck!

NB I like the old coupes - the 262C and the gorgeous 780. I would sooo love a nice 780!

[360beast]

RWDKev was telling me the 960 has more metal in the shell itself along with those items mentioned by rolling thunder so no wonder it is a heavy old lump.

Don't forget the straight 6 makes a nice noise.... Especially with silencers removed and you have the Swedish 2JZ haha.

[RollingThunder]

Originally Posted by 360beast

Don't forget the straight 6 makes a nice noise.... Especially with silencers removed and you have the Swedish 2JZ haha.

Indeed it does - some refer to it as a banshee wail My old 965 developed a hole in its rear exhaust box, but the sound was so appealing (sorry) that I left it like that until I had to replace it for an MoT

[marky4]

The 960 i had was a K reg and it was superb at 10 years old. The cat got damaged by me and when replaced it never ran right again they couldn't seal it so i traded it for a S60 2.4 petrol which had a throttle housing fault so that went too. I may be on my 16th but know very little about them . I had a S80 Executive 2012 and traded it for a S90 in 2019 and even though both were fully loaded the S80 in my opinion was a better driving position. The S80 was immaculate but i only got £4500 for it. The S90 didn't last long as i kept my eye on residuals. I found a XC 90 Inscription in 2020 with air and most extras at £30700 i snapped their hand off they didn't want the S90 so that went for £17000 and that was virtually perfect but i struggled to get in and out of it. They are very low some may like it but me at 6ft 5 didn't

[Paulk]

Hmm some interesting comments observations re 940 /960.

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread but was wondering if there were any reliability issues with a 2.3 turbo 940 versus non turbo?

Thanks

Paul