Attempt to be silenced by a Main Dealer

[Lightfoot]

This thread (and this one http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...?t=139631)have been brought to my attention as they directly and indirectly concern me and I want to put the record straight and maybe help Volvo and Volvo owners in the process.

I am a 72 year old pensioner, a retired Electronics Engineer (ex-RAF) and Industrial Photographer. Over the past thirty years I have owned a whole series of Volvo cars and am a member of VOC and the T5D5 Forums. I must stress straight away that other than putting fuel, oil and water in my cars I have ALWAYS relied on the Volvo Dealers and Technicians to look under the bonnet and do whatever is required. I have never got oil or grease under my fingernails. I do not run modified cars and joined the T5D5 Forum out of interest and if need be support my son who also runs a D5 but with a few more “bells and whistles” than my standard D5 SE (hence the large number of photos that were made available to T5D5 members taken at the Castle Combe track day earlier this year).

My cars over the years – 345GLE , 245DL , 745GLE , 745GLE , 745 GLT 2.3 16v, 855 2.5 10v GLT (used), V70 P2 2.4 n/a 140 SE (used), V50 1.8 SE (used) and the recently purchased (the one in question) – V70 P2.5 D5 SE (used). I have never had any problems and, in the case of the 855 and 745 series cars, each did 150k to 200k miles before change.

We changed our original 2000 2.4 n/a 140 P2 V70 SE earlier this year as it needed some work doing which we knew would cost (in both time and money) and decided to trade it in and down size to a V50 at the same time. My wife is seriously ill and we have occasion to use a wheelchair. Although we had checked beforehand, I found it difficult to get the wheelchair in and out of the V50 in day to day use and also that it took up so much space that there was no room for shopping etc. There were also other issues with the Ford – sorry!, Volvo V50, no power (by comparison to the V70), awful gearbox, road noise and accidentally crushing my wife’s hand when applying the appalling handbrake. So we only kept it for a few weeks.

Next problem find a used V70?!!

Simple I thought, just go to the Volvo Selekt website and search. Yes there is one up at Bradford that met the specification I was looking for, not too far away up the A1.

Clive Brook Ltd was the Dealership and they had a V70 P2.5 D5 SE manual (EUIII so no DPF) for sale under the Volvo Selekt banner so up we went. This was the exact model I wanted after much discussion with my son.

The car, on a 05 plate, was on the forecourt and at first viewing looked clean and tidy. So in we went to see the sales staff to see if I could get a deal including trading in the 07 plate V50. We had a drive of the V70 and then a discussion with the salesman. Having driven the car, albeit only locally, and looked around it again it was agreed that on purchase the wheels would be refurbished, a tow bar and electrics fitted for my small trailer, the handbrake required adjusting, a number of paintwork scratches around the car would be sorted and the number plate exchanged for my private plate from the V50. This was all agreed along, with 12 months Volvo Selekt Warranty including breakdown.
I understood that I could retain and return the V50 Road Tax to DVLA for refund as it was in the first month of 12 month tax. Unfortunately when I returned the tax disk to the DVLA I was informed that the available refund had already been claimed by the dealer and transferred to the new number plate of the V50, and the tax on the V70 was only until April 2012!

I also paid for a 3 year Car Insurance Gap policy. Right, deal done and it would take two weeks to sort out paperwork etc. As we left I asked about the car remote locking system as when we locked the car, the lights did NOT flash but did when the car was unlocked. The salesman disappeared into the workshop and came back with the reply that “it was a computer software problem and would be sorted out”.

We exchanged and collected the car three weeks later as they had made a mistake and I hadn’t signed some of the required DVLA papers.

We found the car parked on the forecourt up against another car so close that it was a tight squeeze to get into the drivers’ seat. The wheels appeared to have been refurbished and looked in order. The paintwork looked reasonable though when viewed from an angle the scratches were still visible but nothing to worry about on a five year old car. A new Volvo tow bar and electrics HAD been fitted and looked OK. One good thing that they did was to take me in the car to the local petrol station and put £25.00 of fuel in for us. The only thing that was immediately obvious was that when the car was unlocked and relocked the lights did not flash on locking so that one could not tell if the car was locked or not. I pointed this out to the salesman who again disappeared into the workshops and returned with the following statement “This model does not have flashing remote locking indications”. Now as I have explained I am no car mechanic and had no information on the car details to argue against so at the time had to accept both the sales and workshop staffs word.

On our way home down the M1 we had to make a semi emergency stop and suffered the most terrible vibration from the steering. As we were nearly home I took it to my local tyre company with whom I have had over 30 years of excellent service and asked them to check the wheels balance. This they did and all four required rebalancing. Then came the real shock, did I know there were different tyres on the rear and that three of the tyres were badly worn? The one good tyre on the front also had a bulge on the side wall and was totally illegal and dangerous. I therefore had no choice but to replace all four tyres, but photographed the one with the bulge before anything was touched. I then phoned the dealer and told them what had been found. They said that mixed tyres were not uncommon and that they had a record of the tyre depths of the car when sold and that the readings were all within Volvo Selekt specifications. They did agree to change the tyre with the bulge but offered no further help and no comment on the balance or vibration problem. We then drove all the way back up to Bradford to exchange the faulty tyre. This was loaded into the back of the car by the parts/workshop manager and we returned home. Another shock when next day I took the tyre down to the tyre company who promptly informed me that it was the wrong type of tyre. Although it was the right size it was a run flat tyre and couldn’t be used on my V70. Being a customer of long standing they exchanged the tyre for a new P6000 the same as the other tyres. So again, what was the dealership thinking of or was it a matter of getting us off the premises whatever?

The following week we embarked on a prearranged visit to the south of England all around the family for what may be the last time for my wife. Again travelling south down the M1 we hit traffic and had to make a fairly heavy braking manoeuvre. It was a good job that there was plenty of space around us as the car vibrated heavily and pulled sharply to the left. The remainder of our journey was done with a lot of care but by then the steering was also becoming very heavy.

In June this year I joined my son and other T5D5 members for the MRG sponsored track day at Castle Combe, whilst also visiting nearby relatives. This was followed by the workshop day at the MRG Chippenham workshops where they checked out my V50 (foc by the way). As we were now going to be staying with family in nearby Devizes I had already made arrangements with MRG to bring in the V70 for a general look over for peace of mind given their reputation and it was a very good job that I had.

I took the V70 into MRG on the Monday where it only took them an hour for Workshop Manager Simon Chui to bring me an A4 list of faults on the car:

One horn not working
Top engine mount split
PAS pump leaking badly
Front and rear disks and pads shot (pads non-Volvo)
Brake fluid failed test (high moisture content)
Car not always unlocking with remote and lights not flashing correctly
Oil filler cap seal leaking
Off side number plate light inoperative
Wiper blades worn.

It was also pointed out that the number plates had been put on out of square and the tow bar was crooked. This was corrected by MRG but they did show me the workmanship of the tow bar fitting which required a small section of plastic from the rear bumper to be removed to accommodate the new towbar. I don’t know who did it but a child could have done better. It looks as if it was done with a bread knife and is certainly not the work of a qualified technician of any sort. MRG also arranged for a bodywork paint expert to come in and look at the scratches and paintwork in general. He was able to repair some of the scratches but the car was up on one of the end ramps against the wall with the brakes being replaced when he came, so he couldn’t complete the job. I hope he will be in attendance again at next years’ MRG/T5D5 Track Day/Open Day. It was also pointed out that one of the paint problems that I had pointed out to the Bradford Dealers; a small gouge in the paint work on a door that went down to the metal which had been “sandpapered” in an attempt to disguise the scratch.

While waiting I telephoned my son at 0931hrs to tell him of the MRG findings.

MRG were also checking with a very surprised Volvo Warranty Department who agreed that the horn and the PAS Pump could be replaced under the Warranty but queried that the Warranty was less than a month old??

The remainder of the required repairs were to be at my expense to which of course I had to agree to at the time and MRG then priced up the costs for these additional repairs.

I again telephoned my son at 1104hrs to advise him of the costing results and said that I would have to have them done to make the car roadworthy again. As I thought, his advice was to telephone Clive Brook immediately. This I did at 1122hrs and explained to the lady on the phone that I was at MRG with a seriously broken down car and asked to speak to the Sales Manager. She said that no-one was available as they were in a meeting. I said I would phone back in a short while. I again telephoned at 1135hrs and spoke to a gentleman to whom I explained again in full the problems and was told someone would telephone me back on one of my two mobiles. No return call was received and I again phoned Clive Brook Ltd at 1508hrs and was yet again told that no-one was available. I therefore requested that someone telephone me back before 1600hrs or I would have to have to take things further.

No return call was received by either me or MRG Volvo before I left to return to Devizes on the Monday evening. Some small parts were not available immediately from MRG but with the car now road worthy and safe to drive I was able to return to Devizes that same day with the knowledge that MRG had done a superb job and that the other repairs world be completed on the Wednesday. All the time I had been at MRG I, along with all the other customers, had been looked after by the constantly attentive showroom staff. I was even taken up to the boardroom so that I could make my phone calls in private and without disturbance.

I phoned my son again that evening to tell him that I had had no response from Clive Brook and he said he would speak to friends on the T5D5 Forum. Fortunately, one member (S60Ben as it turns out) was working locally to Bradford and kindly volunteered to take up our case with Clive Brook on Tuesday. Via a few phone calls, I gave permission for him to act on my behalf.

The following day (Tuesday) whilst we were out in the car with family members I received a phone call from Clive Brook himself. Following a conversation, he agreed that he would pay all the additional costs for the repairs to the car and settle the account directly with MRG. The following day the remaining repairs were completed and we had a totally safe, roadworthy and legal car. I have however, never received any apology from Clive Brook Ltd, only an email request to complete a survey of customer satisfaction which I naturally declined.

BUT and a very BIG BUT, why was this all not sorted before the car was marketed as a Volvo Selekt car?? Why does Volvo not check on the dealerships and used cars sold under the Volvo Selekt banner or was this one hidden away from any survey?

I was lucky and able to have it sorted out with the help; first of all from Simon Chui and his staff at MRG Chippenham, and then by members of the VOC and T5D5 Forums, without whom I may still have ended up very much out of pocket. Thank you Simon, MRG Chippenham, Robbie, Ben and the VOC & T5D5 Forums.

Lastly ask whether I was told lies by the selling dealership or not. Lies, Fibs, Untruths, call it what you will, and make what you will of the answers and treatment I received. As far as I am concerned I was not treated as a valued Volvo Customer, as I should have expected and the car was most certainly not checked, serviced and prepared to the standard one expects from a Volvo Dealership, let alone a Volvo Selekt vehicle.

Volvo should have a spot check system in place for the technicians and staff who are employed to act on their behalf. I understand that Volvo does audit it’s dealerships but are these unannounced spot checks or are the dealerships informed in advance allowing them to spruce themselves up for the day?

If the quality of service that I have received is widespread I fear for the future of Volvo in the UK.

To the Directors of Clive Brooks Ltd I would say that a closer monitoring of your managers and staff and what goes on at your dealership is certainly required. We need more MRG’s and their quality of Service with trained, knowledgeable, dedicated technicians and staff.

A lesson here for Volvo who I hope will read this and take heed. Also to those dealerships that may try under hand dealing and selling. Eventually you will always be found out....

[volvorocks]

Hi S60Ben with the same picture!

I fully understand a persons annoyance if indeed it is the case that they have purchased something that may be faulty.
I am not suggesting or implying that you acted in one manner or the other , nor have I read your initial post that gives rise to your latest problem.
However when raising an issue I find it always best to verbally state assertively to the seller that with which you may be unhappy, and then place such in writing to them and move on from there.

There is mention of libel in the letter you received, and although it may be doubtful as to whether a person would go so far as to launch an action due to cost and complexity it is however always a possibility.A defamatory comment is presumed to be false, unless the person making it can prove its truth and if they can then its not defamatory which is sort of opposite to what we know as “innocent until proven guilty”..!!



You write

“He tells half a story, pretends he's asking nicely, but then shoves in the libel bit and the threat of him taking it further..”

Which may be better if written

“I am of the opinion that he may only be telling half the story and pretending hes asking nicely, but then shoves in the libel bit and the threat of him taking it further..”

There is no law against having feelings and opinions


Just wishing to point out so you can have freedom of speech (fine line) without the possibility of any problems

Regards

[docjd]

This is going to get complicated!
You need to know your end game .
Seek a quick resolution where possible!

[volvorocks]

Evening Lightfoot

Thank you for an interesting post. I empathise with you.

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by Ninja59

i dont want to be seen as the bad man here but is it not better a) to keep this a private matter b) to remove the comments rather than enraging the situation.

from a legal point though if they are fair comment expressing an opinion and not a fact, with public interest and are "fair" then go right ahead. As you might get a defence that way of fair comment.

Also i would like to point out it in the majority it is slander not libel online.

Although a thread like this i can seriously see enflaming the situation honestly...

Hi Ninja59

Yes I agree with your thoughts although slander is the spoken word and libel the written.

Howsoever labelled they do of course come under the label "defamation"

Regards

[outnumbered]

http://www.selektvolvocars.co.uk/sel...amme-overview/.
interesting reading

[volvorocks]

Lots of people reading (this post)! Can only be good.

[T5R+]

I never get involved in this type of thing and am more of a lurker than poster.

Must be one of the lucky Clive Brook customers - have bought 2 cars from them in the past and whilst there were niggles, the service was great eg live too far to go back and a generous cheque was posted to me to rectify one of the issues.

Have met Clive and I believe him to be a gentleman. He is also a very slick sales person and will know that negative publicity is bad press - cannot imagine he will not endeavour to mutually resolve situation. Will not say more, as he may figure out who I am!

The OP will no doubt be upset/livid/? at the situation and I can appreciate his view.

Part of me would like to believe that both parties can resolve this matter without "internet dirty laundry".

PS I have nothing whatsoever to do with Volvo/Clive Brook and only speak of my dealings with the dealership.

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by outnumbered

http://www.selektvolvocars.co.uk/sel...amme-overview/.
interesting reading

Does indeed read good and should set ones mind at rest with the thought of stress free motoring............HOWEVER.... clause d. under:-

d.The Volvo dealer, at his absolute discretion, is satisfied that the Volvo Selekt car is in the same condition as at the time of delivery to the customer"

.....with the definition of discretion being..................

"the power or right to decide or act according to one's own judgment"

One word - is it a large escape route - ?

Regards

[t5_monkey]

Clive should have just resolved this.

Accusing someone of dangerous driving is entirely a separate issue to his displeasure at your account of events.

Tying the two together is silly and puts him in a very poor light. If he felt your driving was dangerous he should have informed the police immediately.

The worst thing about this, is Clive's reply.