Petrol or Diesel

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Whippy

Which is a bit like saying that car engines are unacceptably noisy, if they don't have silencers. Or that if you take the wings off an aircraft they're just dangerous.

In other words, stating a blindingly obvious fact! It seemed necessary though!

Originally Posted by tofufi

NOT trapped. Converted into things which are understood to cause less damage to the environment or people's health.

The tailpipe emissions are what matters, not the raw engine emissions before aftertreatment systems.

Interesting use of the word "understood" Jim. Once upon a time it was "understood" diesels didn't produce any harnful emissions until it was researched further, ditto for petrol engines but in the early 80s, diesels were hailed as the saviour of the panet and humanity because they were (allegedly) so much cleaner.

In the past we've also been told sugar, alcohol, tobacco and other things are good for us and at one point in time that eggs were bad for us. With all that in mind, it's fair to say the "scientists" change opinions more times than enough.

I've already posted links much further back in this thread about the increase of cancer cases since the early 80s when diesels started to become popular, it's not a coincidence!

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Interesting use of the word "understood" Jim. Once upon a time it was "understood" diesels didn't produce any harnful emissions until it was researched further, ditto for petrol engines but in the early 80s, diesels were hailed as the saviour of the panet and humanity because they were (allegedly) so much cleaner.

Actually, the focus at the time was on reducing CO2 production. In those terms, diesels are cleaner...

Science evolves - unlike some of the views in this thread

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I've already posted links much further back in this thread about the increase of cancer cases since the early 80s when diesels started to become popular, it's not a coincidence!

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Road traffic has doubled in terms of total miles driven in that time. Flight (air) traffic is 5 times what it was in 1980.

Increasing diesel usage will certainly play some part, but the increase in mobility of the population as a whole is also relevant.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by tofufi

Actually, the focus at the time was on reducing CO2 production. In those terms, diesels are cleaner...

Science evolves - unlike some of the views in this thread



Correlation doesn't imply causation. Road traffic has doubled in terms of total miles driven in that time. Flight (air) traffic is 5 times what it was in 1980.

Increasing diesel usage will certainly play some part, but the increase in mobility of the population as a whole is also relevant.

Very true - we could also lay blame at Freddie Lakers door for his Skytrain airline business then as air travel really took off with that - excuse the pun, it wasn't intentional!

I still think there's a relevant link between increased use of diesels in cars and the increase in incidents of cancer though.

[Whippy]

Originally Posted by tofufi

Actually, the focus at the time was on reducing CO2 production. In those terms, diesels are cleaner...

Science evolves - unlike some of the views in this thread



Correlation doesn't imply causation. Road traffic has doubled in terms of total miles driven in that time. Flight (air) traffic is 5 times what it was in 1980.

Increasing diesel usage will certainly play some part, but the increase in mobility of the population as a whole is also relevant.

You can add the overwhelming increase in consumption of fat laden takeaways and general obesity in the population and the rise of alcohol as causes of increased cancers.

A 2021 diesel car is a light-year away in terms of decreased pollution than any car produced in the '80s.

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by Whippy

You can add the overwhelming increase in consumption of fat laden takeaways and general obesity in the population and the rise of alcohol as causes of increased cancers.

A 2021 diesel car is a light-year away in terms of decreased pollution than any car produced in the '80s.

Good point.

Graph showing the reduction in pollutant limits here:



That said, real world data is less good, primarily due to deficiencies in the regulation (and manufacturers both gaming and plain cheating the system).

[Whippy]

Quick question, when did nox defeating tech become widespread?

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Whippy

Quick question, when did nox defeating tech become widespread?

The concept of EGR controlled by a valve was 'by 1973'... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exha...lation#History

There is also more recent additional NOx reduction technology... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx_adsorber

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by Whippy

Quick question, when did nox defeating tech become widespread?

Do you mean the measures to reduce NOx, or the defeat devices to cheat or avoid the test?

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by tofufi

Do you mean the measures to reduce NOx, or the defeat devices to cheat or avoid the test?

Ah, good question!

[Whippy]

Originally Posted by tofufi

Do you mean the measures to reduce NOx, or the defeat devices to cheat or avoid the test?

The first, I remember Audi fitting Adblue devices in mid 2014. Obviously HGV 's have been using it for a while but it's a relatively new tech in cars.