240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

There are plenty of secondhand options arond Alan, one of your biggest decisions will be the type of tank you want. The two basic types are the cylinder or toroidal, aka torpedo or donut.
The donut lives in the spare wheel well and the torpedo would likely be mounted between the wheel arches in the boot.
Personally the donut type is better but each to their own.

Then there's the filler. If you have a towbar, you can get a towbar mounting plate for the filler, otherwise you'll have to either cut a hole in the body or make a bracket to mount it under the bumper somewhere.

As for the front end kit, i haven't looked through the Tinley front end kit to see what is included but a few other options :

https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/europegas-...mmable-switch/

Picked that one for ease of programming/fitting and use. Obviously you need the fuel and gas solenoids as well plus a vapouriser and mixer. These all come in one kit (except the mixer) with this item :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lovato-LP...W/223170402005

There are links on the switch to show installation diagrams and instructions, have a read through even if you decide that's not the one for you as it will give you an idea of things you'll need to know.

Find yourself a good used tank on fleabay and you're nearly there!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toroidal-...r/402379690704

One suggestion there but a bit far for collection! Comes with the multivalve and gas-tight lid, then it's the pipework and filler and you're pretty much there.

Good morn Dave,

Anything more to report with the LPG conversion?

The RB is running very nicely so I've sort of run out of jobs at the mo (the roof, AW71 transmission and this LPG conversion are all in the planning and parts acquisition stage).

It is fun driving my motor car around though, just last week I had to visit a rental property to fix a small fault for the tenants. They were so enthused that I showed up in this really cool car - we spent longer talking about the RB than it did for me to fix a few tiles :-)

Alan

[Clifford Pope]

I ran a 240 on LPG for a number of years, and have mixed feelings about it.
My overall view is it's worth having if the previous owner paid for it, not worth fitting otherwise.

Mine had been converted in Holland, where they are or were hot on conversions. Their favourite location for the gas tank was slung underneath in a slot cut out of the storage locker in the boot (estate version). This was good in that it did not detract from floor space or spare wheel storage, but meant a rather small tank and looked a bit inelegant and needed a modification to the rear exhaust.

There is a registration/certfication system for LPG, not compulsory, but many insurance companies insist on it. Mine did not have this, having been converted abroad. My insurer appeared not to mind, but rules were being tightened up, and I could forsee trouble looming some time. One rule is that tanks have to have a certificate and are only guaranteed for 10 years. If you use a tank of unknown age you are risking the insurance. It is possible to get a tank tested, but an authorised tester will not be interested in a DIY job. One company I asked said they wouldn't touch a DIY set up with a barge board. So on insurance grounds you are on dodgy ground unless it is converted and certificated by a professional.

In theory you can start on LPG from cold, but the more basic mixer system, which I had, I found erratic when cold and liable to blow-backs, so I always started on petrol and switched over to gas after a few minutes running.
This negates a big advantage of LPG - clean running during the first few minutes.

Generally the car ran just as well on LPG once warmed up, but LPG has a lower energy value than petrol, so you get lower mpg figures. The economy comes only from the lower excise rate - there is nothing magic in the LPG, it is less efficient than petrol.
I did notice that acceleration was not quite so brisk when flat out, so if preparing for a foot-down overtake I would switch back into petrol in advance.

The set up is temperamental, and needs to be spot-on. The ever present risk is of a blow-back. This is a pop from fuel igniting in the inlet manifold and air intake duct, which can blow the duct off. Advice is to keep one of the clips a bit loose so that it blows off rather than doing damage, or fit a proper flap valve in the intake. Don't switch over to gas while under acceleration, nor on overrun, but choose a moment when the car is running easily with moderate throttle.

My experience was that the number of gas outlets was declining. It is not the fuel of the future. We live in a rural area, with only one outlet within 40 miles. LPG cost 80p a litre. There are two types of filler. The kind with a rotating locking ring is awful. I have seen people at filling stations struggling to make them work, with the connection frequently coming off in a puff of escaping gas.

Overall I found LPG stressful, spoiling the nice relaxed Volvo style. But then mine was a cheap and dated mixer system. With a modern professionally installed injection system I am sure they are fine, at a price.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Clifford Pope

I ran a 240 on LPG for a number of years, and have mixed feelings about it.
My overall view is it's worth having if the previous owner paid for it, not worth fitting otherwise.

Mine had been converted in Holland, where they are or were hot on conversions. Their favourite location for the gas tank was slung underneath in a slot cut out of the storage locker in the boot (estate version). This was good in that it did not detract from floor space or spare wheel storage, but meant a rather small tank and looked a bit inelegant and needed a modification to the rear exhaust.

There is a registration/certfication system for LPG, not compulsory, but many insurance companies insist on it. Mine did not have this, having been converted abroad. My insurer appeared not to mind, but rules were being tightened up, and I could forsee trouble looming some time. One rule is that tanks have to have a certificate and are only guaranteed for 10 years. If you use a tank of unknown age you are risking the insurance. It is possible to get a tank tested, but an authorised tester will not be interested in a DIY job. One company I asked said they wouldn't touch a DIY set up with a barge board. So on insurance grounds you are on dodgy ground unless it is converted and certificated by a professional.

In theory you can start on LPG from cold, but the more basic mixer system, which I had, I found erratic when cold and liable to blow-backs, so I always started on petrol and switched over to gas after a few minutes running.
This negates a big advantage of LPG - clean running during the first few minutes.

Generally the car ran just as well on LPG once warmed up, but LPG has a lower energy value than petrol, so you get lower mpg figures. The economy comes only from the lower excise rate - there is nothing magic in the LPG, it is less efficient than petrol.
I did notice that acceleration was not quite so brisk when flat out, so if preparing for a foot-down overtake I would switch back into petrol in advance.

The set up is temperamental, and needs to be spot-on. The ever present risk is of a blow-back. This is a pop from fuel igniting in the inlet manifold and air intake duct, which can blow the duct off. Advice is to keep one of the clips a bit loose so that it blows off rather than doing damage, or fit a proper flap valve in the intake. Don't switch over to gas while under acceleration, nor on overrun, but choose a moment when the car is running easily with moderate throttle.

My experience was that the number of gas outlets was declining. It is not the fuel of the future. We live in a rural area, with only one outlet within 40 miles. LPG cost 80p a litre. There are two types of filler. The kind with a rotating locking ring is awful. I have seen people at filling stations struggling to make them work, with the connection frequently coming off in a puff of escaping gas.

Overall I found LPG stressful, spoiling the nice relaxed Volvo style. But then mine was a cheap and dated mixer system. With a modern professionally installed injection system I am sure they are fine, at a price.

Thank you for that - first hand experience is always the best sort. I'm waiting to see how Dave's conversion goes :-)

Alan

[Clifford Pope]

Originally Posted by Clifford Pope

One company I asked said they wouldn't touch a DIY set up with a barge board.

Sorry, just noticed this gem. It's barge "pole" of course, not "board" !

Shows where my mind has been working - house repairs.

[Laird Scooby]

If it was as bad as Cliffords experience suggests Alan, i wouldn't be converting mine!

My first LPG powered vehicle was my 1994 Cherokee 4.0L HO that came with the conversion.
The ECU for it died during welding for the MoT, the guy who did it disconnected the battery while welding so i don't think that was the cause of the problem. I replaced the ECU with a different sort that worked well and would change to gas almost immediately after start-up, once i sorted a few general bugs in the LPG set up.

Second one was my 827 Coupe which i converted myself, again using a mixer system. I used the same sort of ECU (AEB Leonardo - you could use the same one for your 244 although i think they've been discontinued/replaced with something else) and did all the install/set-up myself. THere was an anomaly on the Rover due to the variable length inlet system that would cause a plug of rich gas to be pulled in at ~4000rpm under acceleration which could bring the EML (Engine Management Light) on under certain circumstances.

That aside, it ran fine on LPG with little or no loss of power due to the fuel, the biggest loss of power was due entirely to the mixer being too restrictive for the engine.

Once i'd sorted both systems, i never suffered blow-backs, the only time i had was on the original system on the Jeep and considering how poorly installed and set up that was, i'm surprised the damned thing ran, never mind anything else!

However, once sorted it returned 24mpg on LPG (it struggled to 18mpg on petrol!) and that was even when towing! Not the little trailers for taking rubbish to the dump but a full length car transporter trailer with 1500kg of car on it!

The 827 Coupe used to return 26-27mpg on gas which correlated exactly with the accepted rule of thumb of "multiply by 1.3" which gave ~33mpg on petrol which was what the Coupe returned on petrol.

Given your average on the RB is 25mpg, on gas i'd expect to see 20-21mpg (but you may be lucky like i was with the Jeep and see more) but even at those figures, you still get a decent payback time.

Probably a bit premature but there's a good guide on setting up a typical vapouriser including many pics and a good description of how it works :

http://www.diy-lpg.co.uk/articles/fi...open-loop.html

Follow that and you won't go far wrong!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Bob Meadows

Quote:~
Just a thought - does anyone (maybe even Volvo) make plastic wheel arch liners like the RB has at the front? They would stop this problem happening.
PS. I have just found a supplier called Volvogue:

------------------------------ ~ ---------------------------
Alan
Yes- fitted the above a couple of years back,quite straight forward to do and fit well. They are very heavy duty plastic & much thicker than a normal liner.
A good product covering all the wheel arch to include front & rear mud traps.

Clean the underside of the arches and treat any rust that has developed etc.
Coat all the arch with oil diluted wax treatment- I also used black "E" shaped E.P.D.M. draught excluder fastened to the plastic lines where it seats against the wheel arch- again run a heavy bead of wax on the same prior to fixing- the wax extruded onto the paint work panels is easily removed with white spirit.
They supply "Z" clips for fixings to the arch lip and I also used a 2/3 flange stainless self tapping screws in places where they rest against the flat inner sections.
Bob.

I never received any reply to my email to Volvovogue Bob, it has been nearly 2 weeks now so maybe the company isn't trading any longer? No matter, I'll look elsewhere for the rear wheel arch liners.

Alan

[Stephen Edwin]

If I remember correctly. Some members have found that Volvovogue are not always quickly available. A search of the forum might ascertain some information.


Comrade Stephen Edwin.


.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I never received any reply to my email to Volvovogue Bob, it has been nearly 2 weeks now so maybe the company isn't trading any longer? No matter, I'll look elsewhere for the rear wheel arch liners.

Alan

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orig-Whee...g/372707852745

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OE-Wheel-...g/352713684331

They might be of interest Alan, would probably need minor modification but given a lot of 240 series was used on the 7xx either as it was or in a modified form, there's a good chance any mods would be minimal.

[Bob Meadows]

Alan: ~ going from memory here I seem to think that they are not the fastest company to respond to messages- but once you have a contact then they are service motivated with quick delivery taking into account the distance etc.
I did look for other suppliers closer to home but just couldn’t find any- the product from Volvogue is worth perusing if you can.
Regards Bob

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Bob Meadows

Alan: ~ going from memory here I seem to think that they are not the fastest company to respond to messages- but once you have a contact then they are service motivated with quick delivery taking into account the distance etc.
I did look for other suppliers closer to home but just couldn’t find any- the product from Volvogue is worth perusing if you can.
Regards Bob

Thank you for that Bob - I'm in no particular rush, so I'm happy to give Volvovogue more time; it is possible the company is still being affected by the pandemic.

I have not been able to find another UK supplier either, so I'll wait out.

Alan