smart motorways?

[andy_d]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

I don't know how to insert "half of thanks" there.

I do like most of your post here, but in the same time point "D" makes me cringe inside.

Its the way you phrased it.
For me, there really IS huge difference between someone who uses right lane(s) responsibly, making space for others on "as needed and possible" basis, and someone who is in the right lane doing 25.9mph, and yet those with BMWs mercs ets.

I agree it is a tough subject..

But NOT everyone using middle or right lane is a bad guy.
Unfortunately, pound "d", and quite a number if other posts seem suggest otherwise, with opinions raging from " this that was in the right lane and I couldn't pass, bl00dy lane hogger" to "I was found 71.9mph and there was Mr LightingMcSpeed glued to me tailpipes, w4nker".


Come on..

We all are (I hope) grown enough to know that there isn't a " golden rule", that would divide bad from good, a definitive answer that would release one from the duty of thinking for himself.

So next time, when any of you is on three-lane, and there's a trailer in the middle, doing its allowed 60mph..

Maybe he isn't the lane hogger, eh? Maybe he simply knows the road better than you.
And as a matter of fact, for that (knowing the road) he doesn't even need the trailer!
It may be an ordinary car.

if the Inside is clear "keep left" end of story
"ah but I know better than you" GTFO with that highway code says "keep left" ,, not "keep left unless you think you know better/ are a self - entitled clown/up your own ear ole.

FAR too many clowns do it , FAR too many bleat some Bull as to "why" and Think they know better,, they dont, Keep left or Take the train.


no grey there so STOP pandering to the excuse mongers

if you dont like how i phrase it, EDUCATE the clowns with the false sense of self entitlement so it isnt needed to get said Rather than trot out the Excuses for them ...

[ThomasG]

Sooo much anger!

I won't be repeating myself. Re-read my previous posts.

And I didn't come here to make excuses for poor driving either, but rather to highlight the thing about some slanting that could be quickly and pointedly expressed as "he's a lane hogger! He is! I said so, so he is!" Appalling.

I'm just about to pop out to sainsburys. How many dummies shall I bring? I think somone here needs one.

Edit:

A fresh thought.

It is difficult NOT to be under impression that for some, anyone who isn't in left lane is automatically either a lane hogger or speed-mad idiot...

Now, the only way such could be a thorn in the side of that fellow forum user, would be if he himself was using that "obstructed" lane..

And by his own logic..

He is a lane hogger or speed madman!

Amusing!

[green van man]

A member of my family, whom never speeds and drives in accordance with the highway code according to them. A couple of years ago between us we took 10 members of the family to lego land for a day trip. On the way this guy whom never speeds arrived 10 minuits before me and I crused at 70. On the way home he was either in lane 2 or 3 at 80+mph all the way from Windsor to cardiff. I crused at 70 in lane 1 venturing into lane 2 to overtake and then returning to lane 1.
Watched the idiots 2 foot off the bumper in front of them jockeying for position at 80+ in lane 2 and 3 while lane 1 was flowing smoothly at 70.

It's not smart motorways that's needed it's smarter drivers.

Paul.

[canis]

Originally Posted by andy_d

if the Inside is clear "keep left" end of story
"ah but I know better than you" GTFO with that highway code says "keep left" ,, not "keep left unless you think you know better/ are a self - entitled clown/up your own ear ole.

FAR too many clowns do it , FAR too many bleat some Bull as to "why" and Think they know better,, they dont, Keep left or Take the train.


no grey there so STOP pandering to the excuse mongers

if you dont like how i phrase it, EDUCATE the clowns with the false sense of self entitlement so it isnt needed to get said Rather than trot out the Excuses for them ...

Can't agree. If someone is continuing straight on, at high speed, like as fast as the outside lane will go speed, for the next hundred miles - why not stay out there? Why be cluttering up the nearside lane just because "thats' what it said in that book i read decades ago and was written before my parents were born"? Someone weaving in and out at high speed traying to return to the nearside lane for every hundred yard gap between lorries at 45mph - that sounds to me like dangerous driving, and I don't care what books says otherwise.

Why this absurd notion amongst drivers that The Highway Code is so sacred and hallowed? You almost talk about it in hushed tones - Too holy to be uttered! It can never be wrong, not in any circumstance. No matter what happens on the road, the highway code has it covered. Perfectly it was written, and the writing was perfect. And so mote it be. Harold be thy name. Forever endevour. Amen.

And criticism of it is sacrilige! Smells like a piece of halibut good enough for Jehovah to me.

What about the one where a number in a red circle is a SPEED LIMIT and actually gets obeyed? Funny how the highway code becomes arbitrary on this point with so many drivers able to discern for themselves when not to apply this law to their driving.

What we're trying to express is the ability to make decisions and not leap to the conclusion that every other driver is:
1) An idiot - they're really not, y'know
2) Is doing it to upset you - no, they're just on their way.
3) Owes you an empty road
4) Should get out of your way

And the current obsession with Lane Hoggers who refuse to slow down to slide between to lorries because you can't be arsed to move over a lane to perform an overtake and will instead tailgate the middle lane driver until he's made to feel too uncomfortable to do anything but have to slow down to move out of your way, recieve rude gestures as you pass, then struggle to get back out again and accellerate up to his prefered choice of 70mph again and must stay stuck between these lorries at 56mph because someone tyied to EDUCATE ...

Sorry, EDUCATE? Did you say EDUCATE? Yeah. I think that's what the BMW I described in an earlier post was doing. I've had enough of this type of EDUCATION thank you very much.

[green van man]

The answer to all the poor driving is more patrol cops not cameras.
There are 2 reasons I obay the road laws, 1 is the tracker system spy in the cab fitted to the works van, the other is a very proactive roads policing team in my area whom enforce the law. I may not agree with it but until it's changed I have to abide by it.

Many visitors who thought they knew better have paid the cost of fines and points and I have seen the roads policing unit pulling folk at 2 am, empty road or not there's a limit and wether we agree or not it's there for a reason.

I have had them track me at night in the van, as a 5 tonner it s limit on local roads is 50. Down the local drag strip they hung back keeping station on me at 50. Car passed them at 60 and closed on me, as we approached the 40 I slowed to 40 and the car overtook me still at 60. 3 seconds later the patrol car passed me with the blues on. Around the bend there was the driver of the car being escorted into the patrol car for a chat.

Afraid I am fed up with the arrogant arse holes whom overtake me on double whites approaching blind dips and bends because they think they are entitled to get there earlier if they want to kill themselves buy some pills not use the car where they endanger others. I don't care how clever they think they are I don't want the inconvenience of their deaths closing roads and no one should have to scrape them out of a car..

Paul.

[The Thong]

Originally Posted by green van man

The answer to all the poor driving is more patrol cops not cameras.
Agreed, we need more visible Plod on our motorways

There are 2 reasons I obay the road laws, 1 is the tracker system spy in the cab fitted to the works van, the other is a very proactive roads policing team in my area whom enforce the law. I may not agree with it but until it's changed I have to abide by it.

I keep reminding people every time this subject comes up...The Law Is The Law whether you like it or not.

Many visitors who thought they knew better have paid the cost of fines and points and I have seen the roads policing unit pulling folk at 2 am, empty road or not there's a limit and wether we agree or not it's there for a reason.

I have had them track me at night in the van, as a 5 tonner it s limit on local roads is 50. Down the local drag strip they hung back keeping station on me at 50. Car passed them at 60 and closed on me, as we approached the 40 I slowed to 40 and the car overtook me still at 60. 3 seconds later the patrol car passed me with the blues on. Around the bend there was the driver of the car being escorted into the patrol car for a chat.

Afraid I am fed up with the arrogant arse holes whom overtake me on double whites approaching blind dips and bends because they think they are entitled to get there earlier if they want to kill themselves buy some pills not use the car where they endanger others. I don't care how clever they think they are I don't want the inconvenience of their deaths closing roads and no one should have to scrape them out of a car..

Witnessed this on the A3400 yesterday. Thames Valley were out speed trapping in the Villages but once out though the fighter pilots go to work. A bloke in a Luton van started hacking his way down the line of traffic, two overtakes were done on double white lines with the last one nearly resulting in a head on with a truck on a blind bend. If he’d waited another half mile there was loads of straight road to overtake on even though his speed limit legally is 50mph.

Paul.

My pet hate are the drivers who cut into a off ramp at the last moment or overtake the queue and wedge themselves in at the last second regardless of who they cut up. I’m over by the markers but there’s always one who has to shove his/her way in in front of you even though there’s nothing behind you. I think they think they’re way too important to have to wait behind a van so it’s their rightful place to be ahead of it.

[Laird Scooby]

Going on the general mood of the last few posts, i think the title of this thread should really be "Inconsiderate Drivers?"

[ThomasG]

Now.. I'm really curious of opinions on something..

As I said, I quite often travel in the lane.. let's call it "right-most-minus-1(or2)".
Of course if lanes to my left are either clear or move at decent speed, which happens very rarely, I'd be there.
But this is M25 I'm talking about.
There's high volume of cars even at 3am on boxing day.

I'd like you to have a look at this clip, link below.
Not to bash the idiot driver from it, (you can if you want to, but its irrelevant) but to have a look at the lanes layout.
Clip follows car joining the M25 from J7(I could assume he was coming from Gatwick area, but can't be sure- doesn't natter anyway).
I very rarely join the M25 there, usually I am approaching this junction from East, on the main body of M25.

My exit is J8. Can be just about seen by the end of this clip, but that's for later.

This clip shows few things.
Layout of lanes.
Typical density of traffic.
Traffic joining from J7 onto M25(clockwise)

Please see, memorise as much as you can, try to spot the exit to J8 by the end of clip.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PuivhmR1Rck

And don't read further until you've seen the clip, please.

As I intend to take J8 exit, I will typically prepare for it way before J7.
That is- good 3 miles before my exit.

I know, from experience, that there is big volume of cars joining on J7, that just after J7 lorries approaching from same direction as me, will have to pretty much cut trough 2 lanes to end up on the left-most again. And its not an easy task as they'll have loafs of cars joining in and trying to change lanes in a quite opposite way (from left to right).

So quite a bit before Junction 7 I will position myself in labe 3, or, if its really dense, even lane 4.
Not going slow.
Unless someone in front of me goes slow and I can't overtake, of course. Then I just need to be patient. He/she is trying to get home, same as me, so why flash lights etc? To make a fool of myself? Naah.. Not me. Drop back and wait.

So.. I'm in one of the inner lanes. And this is where it gets complicated.
Exit to J8 is a very short distance from entry from J7.
And by then I need to be in left lane.
What's in my way?
Lorties- changing lanes to left.
And cars- changing lanes to right.
Quite a mess that I don't really want to enter.
And there's idiots (plenty of those) just like the one on this clip.

So I stay in one of "fast" lanes.
And whilst I pass all that mayhem to my left, I observe, and plan.
How do I get to left lane just before my exit.
Which car moves faster , which slower, where is it likely that a gap sufficient for me will open..

Alternative is to drop the speed down to 55mph, cross lanes all the way to the left and go the remaining mile or so between lorries.
It is an option.
And to be hinest, about 7times out of 10 I do just that, being unable to work out the gaps.
But with the remaining 3..

I will find that gap.
Mind- I have 2 or3 lanes to cross(and on that stretch M25 has 5lanes for a very short distance, and 4 thereafter). So the gap as I need needs to be
-in lane 3, big enough that I don't end up too close to either car in front or back.
-in lane 2, same principles.
-these 2 need to correspond to each other in such a way that I can, most importantly- see all cars that I may be passing close to, and giving me ability to go SAFELY! straight from my lane- 2 lanes to left.
If I can do 3- its a feat.
If I can do 3 and in the same, one smooth move enter the sliproad of J8. Miracle.

Uhh.. The feeling!

Now, watch the clip again, please.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PuivhmR1Rck

And straight away I know, there will be some saying that this is dangerous. That in some way it defies the highway code (I actually never seen a prohibition of changing more tgan 1lane at a time, but I'll be happy to learn otherwise).
And with distances I simply must allow with such a.. complicated (it is!) manoeuvre- I can't say I'm "cutting in" in front of someone.

I would, if I did it right in front of him.
But if I make sure there's at least 4cars space between me and one in the back, and same in front (I try to aim for even bigger space, but this is my treshold- if I can't have gap at least THIS big, its a "abandon mission" thing- drop the speed, get between lorries).

So..

I expect to be called names by quite a few now. Got a list of likely persons in my head, too

[The Thong]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Going on the general mood of the last few posts, i think the title of this thread should really be "Inconsiderate Drivers?"

That’s forums for you. Ok, back on subject then, my concerns on “smart motorways” is if a car breaks down and you’re stranded. You’ve gotta hope the camera’s see you and whoever is in control of the signs acts quickly enough. If you make it to the refuges then you’re sorted but otherwise it gotta be scary. I see they’re on about making driving up a lane that’s closed with the Red Cross over the top an endorsable offence... about time too.

[The Thong]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Now.. I'm really curious of opinions on something..

As I said, I quite often travel in the lane.. let's call it "right-most-minus-1(or2)".
Of course if lanes to my left are either clear or move at decent speed, which happens very rarely, I'd be there.
But this is M25 I'm talking about.
There's high volume of cars even at 3am on boxing day.

I'd like you to have a look at this clip, link below.
Not to bash the idiot driver from it, (you can if you want to, but its irrelevant) but to have a look at the lanes layout.
Clip follows car joining the M25 from J7(I could assume he was coming from Gatwick area, but can't be sure- doesn't natter anyway).
I very rarely join the M25 there, usually I am approaching this junction from East, on the main body of M25.

My exit is J8. Can be just about seen by the end of this clip, but that's for later.

This clip shows few things.
Layout of lanes.
Typical density of traffic.
Traffic joining from J7 onto M25(clockwise)

Please see, memorise as much as you can, try to spot the exit to J8 by the end of clip.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PuivhmR1Rck

And don't read further until you've seen the clip, please.

As I intend to take J8 exit, I will typically prepare for it way before J7.
That is- good 3 miles before my exit.

I know, from experience, that there is big volume of cars joining on J7, that just after J7 lorries approaching from same direction as me, will have to pretty much cut trough 2 lanes to end up on the left-most again. And its not an easy task as they'll have loafs of cars joining in and trying to change lanes in a quite opposite way (from left to right).

So quite a bit before Junction 7 I will position myself in labe 3, or, if its really dense, even lane 4.
Not going slow.
Unless someone in front of me goes slow and I can't overtake, of course. Then I just need to be patient. He/she is trying to get home, same as me, so why flash lights etc? To make a fool of myself? Naah.. Not me. Drop back and wait.

So.. I'm in one of the inner lanes. And this is where it gets complicated.
Exit to J8 is a very short distance from entry from J7.
And by then I need to be in left lane.
What's in my way?
Lorties- changing lanes to left.
And cars- changing lanes to right.
Quite a mess that I don't really want to enter.
And there's idiots (plenty of those) just like the one on this clip.

So I stay in one of "fast" lanes.
And whilst I pass all that mayhem to my left, I observe, and plan.
How do I get to left lane just before my exit.
Which car moves faster , which slower, where is it likely that a gap sufficient for me will open..

Alternative is to drop the speed down to 55mph, cross lanes all the way to the left and go the remaining mile or so between lorries.
It is an option.
And to be hinest, about 7times out of 10 I do just that, being unable to work out the gaps.
But with the remaining 3..

I will find that gap.
Mind- I have 2 or3 lanes to cross(and on that stretch M25 has 5lanes for a very short distance, and 4 thereafter). So the gap as I need needs to be
-in lane 3, big enough that I don't end up too close to either car in front or back.
-in lane 2, same principles.
-these 2 need to correspond to each other in such a way that I can, most importantly- see all cars that I may be passing close to, and giving me ability to go SAFELY! straight from my lane- 2 lanes to left.
If I can do 3- its a feat.
If I can do 3 and in the same, one smooth move enter the sliproad of J8. Miracle.

Uhh.. The feeling!

Now, watch the clip again, please.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PuivhmR1Rck

And straight away I know, there will be some saying that this is dangerous. That in some way it defies the highway code (I actually never seen a prohibition of changing more tgan 1lane at a time, but I'll be happy to learn otherwise).
And with distances I simply must allow with such a.. complicated (it is!) manoeuvre- I can't say I'm "cutting in" in front of someone.

I would, if I did it right in front of him.
But if I make sure there's at least 4cars space between me and one in the back, and same in front (I try to aim for even bigger space, but this is my treshold- if I can't have gap at least THIS big, its a "abandon mission" thing- drop the speed, get between lorries).

So..

I expect to be called names by quite a few now. Got a list of likely persons in my head, too

The M25 is free for all at the best of times. There should be bins on the side of every entry to the M25 so you can throw your copy of the Highway Code into it. I drive typically 1000-1500 miles per week and some of this includes the M25 and I see just about every law broken. Undertaking, lane hogging, cutting up, queue hacking etc etc. The M60 is just as bad too, unless you get more police back out there then this will continue.