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'89-740 (8 valve) No Start

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Old Jul 25th, 2020, 02:48   #1
Volvoaus
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Default '89-740 (8 valve) No Start

1989 - 740 B230 (8 valve) cranking over but not firing/starting:

-Fuel
1. Fuel in tank, oil in donk, new radiator, 360k on clock. Revs been indecisive lately
2. New fuel filter
3. In-tank fuel pump used replacement (multi-meter saying OK)
4. Main fuel pump used replacement (whirring sound when ignition turned on)
5. Minimal grit in tank

-Electrics
6. All fuses OK
7. Fuel injection relay used replacement (clicking)
8. Radio suppression relay used replacement (clicking)
9. ECU problematic 02800 000-‘561’ used replacement (‘951’ came out, will put back in)
10. Getting spark -fairly new plugs (bit sooty but not wet)
11. MAF sensor cleaned
12. TDC sensor ragged – tidied up (sits almost directly down from rear of tappet cover)

-Maybe
13. The Haynes manual talks about engine speed sensor (haven’t found this one yet, only TDC)
14. Haven't checked distributor area yet

Car is on street other side of town. Any advice/suggestions greatly appreciated

Last edited by Volvoaus; Jul 25th, 2020 at 05:26.
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Old Jul 25th, 2020, 11:36   #2
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Sell it and buy a V8 Ute SS - love those cars! Wanna buy one in the UK but they are serious money over here =)

Anyway, guessing its the EFI engine, are the injectors definitely firing? Can you smell lots of fuel out of the exhaust when cranking? The only other things left that you haven't checked is Air and Timing. Is the timing belt taught and the tensioner still has travel? These engines are non-interference so no trouble if its way out.

Could be that its running rich (Engine temperature sensor under the intake manifold) if it is getting fuel - that's my go-to stab-in-the-dark

Also, recommend Robert DIY on youtube, he has a no-start process for these Redblock engines if you haven't already checked him out. Good luck

Last edited by taiwan740; Jul 25th, 2020 at 11:39.
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Old Jul 25th, 2020, 11:56   #3
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taiwan740 - thanks for the feedback. The 740 delivers 13l/100km (22mpg around town) so maybe better off with SS V8 Ute. Yes it is EFI.
- Will explore injectors firing
- No lots of fuel smell when cranking (will put my nose at the exhaust next time)
- Will check timing belt
- Hopefully engine temp sensor is cleanable item, will check it out
- Have checked Robert's DIY stuff (the task at hand)
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Old Jul 25th, 2020, 17:17   #4
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You say you are getting a spark and the fuel pump is working, it should start then.

Not a bad diagnostic method, however

-there are 2 pumps, 1 in-tank lift pump and 1 external
-Are you getting the rpm needle moving slightly during cranking? (also good spark checker)

-Wire up a bulb or meter to the fuel pump supply near the tank and check you are getting voltage during cranking.

Crank sensor is engine speed and position sensor, you won't get a spark without this working (indicated by rpm needle)

If the electrics are ok then you need to look at fuel pressure, ideally measure it, try blocking the fuel return pipe with clamps, maybe check fuel come out of the in-tank pump.
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Old Jul 26th, 2020, 00:55   #5
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Ignition amplifier module, despite the fact you're getting a spark. Is the spark orange or a definite blue? Also have you checked the carbon brush inside the dizzy cap? They have a habit of breaking at higher mileage.

Also check your plug gap (should be 0.6-0.7mm) and dry/clean the plugs while they're out for gap checking.

You say it's a B230, is that B230 FB, FD or what? Makes a big difference to some things! Already worked out it's not a B230E as that's mechaincal injection.

Does it have a cat on it and if so, have you checked it's not blocked?
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Old Jul 27th, 2020, 03:56   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
Ignition amplifier module, despite the fact you're getting a spark. Is the spark orange or a definite blue? Also have you checked the carbon brush inside the dizzy cap? They have a habit of breaking at higher mileage.

Also check your plug gap (should be 0.6-0.7mm) and dry/clean the plugs while they're out for gap checking.

You say it's a B230, is that B230 FB, FD or what? Makes a big difference to some things! Already worked out it's not a B230E as that's mechaincal injection.

Does it have a cat on it and if so, have you checked it's not blocked?
1. spark is blue, strong, constant
2. all plugs looked good/gaps OK - cleaned them anyway
3. Not sure where to find out 'B230, is that B230 FB, FD or what', but engine no. is B23/F128925324144
4. No CAT
5. RPM needle is moving on crank over
6. Firing a little with 'start ya bastard' in air tube
7. Fitted another cleaned MAF

It is not getting fuel, even after installing tested in-tank pump and used main pump. Fuel simply not coming out of tank

We set up an independent fuel source by hooking straight into the main pump intake - fuel not getting up to engine

Interestingly, the '561' ECU is giving more animated fuel pump relay and main pump responses ie, clicking/whirring every ignition 'on'. The '951' ECU needed 5 minute intervals before pump whirr (prime)

Jump on bicycle now 20km over there collect fuel pump relay and resolder

Day 7!!!

Last edited by Volvoaus; Jul 27th, 2020 at 03:58.
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Old Jul 27th, 2020, 09:55   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvoaus View Post
1. spark is blue, strong, constant
2. all plugs looked good/gaps OK - cleaned them anyway
3. Not sure where to find out 'B230, is that B230 FB, FD or what', but engine no. is B23/F128925324144 -Timing belt Cover and/or your original service/handbook
4. No CAT ?????????????
5. RPM needle is moving on crank over
6. Firing a little with 'start ya bastard' in air tube
7. Fitted another cleaned MAF

It is not getting fuel, even after installing tested in-tank pump and used main pump. Fuel simply not coming out of tank

We set up an independent fuel source by hooking straight into the main pump intake - fuel not getting up to engine

Interestingly, the '561' ECU is giving more animated fuel pump relay and main pump responses ie, clicking/whirring every ignition 'on'. The '951' ECU needed 5 minute intervals before pump whirr (prime)

Jump on bicycle now 20km over there collect fuel pump relay and resolder

Day 7!!!
If the original ECU was a '561, it's a B230F, that means it's the LH2.4 with a Lambda sensor and a CAT. There is also a known problem with the '561 and '951 ECUs for the fuel pump :

https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/Eng...#ECUWorkaround

Check fuses 1, 11 and 13 while you're over there on your treader.
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Old Jul 27th, 2020, 11:42   #8
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940s to 1995 would prime every time, but later ones prime only after about 10s off time, so it does vary between computers.

How have you determined fuel is not getting to the engine or out of the tank? And why are you getting a fuel pump relay if you are getting priming?
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Old Jul 30th, 2020, 09:24   #9
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Originally Posted by TonyS9 View Post
940s to 1995 would prime every time, but later ones prime only after about 10s off time, so it does vary between computers.

How have you determined fuel is not getting to the engine or out of the tank? And why are you getting a fuel pump relay if you are getting priming?
a) Fuel is not getting to the engine or out of the tank because with the fuel hose disconnected at the main fuel pump inlet, there is no fuel coming from the tank (the hose is dry, there is no fuel dribbling or squirting out of the hose, hence not getting up to the engine). The tank has fuel in it (as mentioned in my first post)

b) I don't have to get a fuel pump relay, I already have a spare one. The main fuel pump is whirring (like it is priming, but the main pump has no fuel to prime, because the fuel is not getting out of the tank)

As mentioned in an earlier post, we set up an independent fuel supply (jerry can on the roof, gravity fed down to the inlet connection on the main fuel pump). Fuel is not moving out of the jerry can supply, the pump is not drawing it out. Also mentioned in my first post, I replaced the in-tank pump with one that tested OK on multi-meter

Will double check the 2nd hand fuel pump we fitted (or reinstall the one that came off, which I have since tested with a 12v battery and seems to run OK)

Last edited by Volvoaus; Jul 30th, 2020 at 10:30.
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Old Jul 30th, 2020, 12:49   #10
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1 or other of the 2 pumps should be working. Gravity feed would be enough to get main pump working but-

1. A small bore hose might cause the hose to collapse or the pump to cavitate, gravity feed in my 360 injection is 12mm (has a bottom outlet tank), 340 modifiers trying to pull fuel out the top of a tank from the 6mm outlet often have problems.
2. You need to prime the feed hose so it symphons the fuel from the jerry can, a pressure pump won't suck enough air to pull the fuel up out of the can.
3. If the pump is whining, it is usually working. It stops working because the brushes have worn out usually.

It seems to me your pressure pump test maybe flawed, and the lift pump in the tank is faulty. Disconnect the pressure pump power and listen for the lift pump working, and check it is definately getting power.
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