240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

According to Bjorn-Eric Lindh, in his definitive book, 'Volvo - Cars from the 20s to the 90s (p178), the B20A (1986cc OHV) was in fact fitted to some early 2-series cars from the factory, 'L.S.', clearly a carry-over from the 1-series.

Strangely, the B20B (twin SU) wasn't listed, however. Lindh goes on to say that all the other 240s were fitted with the new B21 (2127cc OHC) motor, followed later by the B23 (2316 cc OHC) in GL variants. A smaller version of the B21, the B19 (1986cc OHC), used in 3-series cars, was also fitted to some 240s destined for those markets where sub 2 litre cars were looked on more favourably for taxation purposes.

All is not what it seems!

Regards, John.

So there John, you have it in full.

I have just noticed your answer (after writing my piece about the Book of Haynes) - if you had been taking GCSE Volvo History this summer you would have achieved a grade 9 :-)

Stay safe,

Alan

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Thanks for that John, does your book state whether the UK got any of those very early OHV 240 models?

Just curious as i know there are a few B280E V6 powered 960s around, obviously early models with the "carry over" V6 before it changed into the B6304 that most 960 owners would be familiar with.

Fairly sure the B19 was used in Italy, i know that was a tax-sensitive country on engine size.

Negative, 'L.S.', and the production figures at the back don't help because they are not broken down by country. I do believe that a few may have found their way here - I've a feeling there was one at the BKV a few years back - maybe the 2-series register keeper could help?

Yes to Italy; their tax system was punitive towards 2 litre plus cars.

Regards, John.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Thank you Dave.

Where did the 88C thermostat come from? I can't see one listed in the Book of Haynes, just the 91-93C - the same as the one that is fitted at the moment.

My Book of Haynes (it looks like a 1986 edition) has a whole section (Chapter 1 Part B) dedicated to 'Overhead valve engines' (11 pages worth) that is all about the 1986cc B20a and B20e. I can't find any reference to when the change happened. You have much more knowledge of Volvos than I do Dave - I'm just looking at the good book and wondering why it would have included a section on OHV engines unless there was a period when they were used.

I've just looked in my Autodata manual, which has a brief potted history from '74 to '84: there is no mention of the B20 motor at all. Something of a paradox? I'm tending to think Mr Haynes has just made a mistake this time - perhaps just copied across the OHV engine section from a previous book on the 140 cars?

Stay safe,

Alan

The reference to an 88C 'stat was prompted by the possibility of misreading the 83C as it's such an unusual value - as i said, "nominally 82C" as most places would call it an 82C 'stat and have done.

It might also be me mixing things up - standard 'stat on my Rover is 78C, the dealer-option fit was 82C (which i've got) and then there was the "Nordic 'stat" (which i want) at 88C so you can see how my thought pattern might have been going!

John has offered a good reason about the OHV engine, if memory serves the 140 ended in about 1974 when the 240 started so there might have been a few cross-over models with the OHV engine but i suspect they may have gone to different countries such as Italy.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The reference to an 88C 'stat was prompted by the possibility of misreading the 83C as it's such an unusual value - as i said, "nominally 82C" as most places would call it an 82C 'stat and have done.

It might also be me mixing things up - standard 'stat on my Rover is 78C, the dealer-option fit was 82C (which i've got) and then there was the "Nordic 'stat" (which i want) at 88C so you can see how my thought pattern might have been going!

John has offered a good reason about the OHV engine, if memory serves the 140 ended in about 1974 when the 240 started so there might have been a few cross-over models with the OHV engine but i suspect they may have gone to different countries such as Italy.

Thanks for clarifying that Dave, I thought for a mo I'd bought the wrong thermostat for the Royal Barge - I noted fitting a 91C (do you remember the PO had removed it:


The one I fitted seems to work okay, but I thought it prudent to change it for a new one before I fill the car with coolant and button it up for two years.

The Volvo parts catalogue seems to have a few ambiguities (I suspect all manufacturers do) - plus these cars are 40 years old, so lots has changed.

The little aside over B20/B21 engines in the 240 range was interesting as well. I'm guessing (although I've never seen one) that the B20 is physically similar to the B21 (notwithstanding the OHC), and so it might well have been possible to incorporate it into the production process in the early days of the 240.

I have heard stories of many manufacturers making sub 2 litre specials for the Italian market due a to punitive taxation regime for larger engines. I think I even recall Ferrari (or maybe it was Maserati) making a sub 2 litre V8 for the home market (I could be wrong - I'm getting old and forget lots).

It looks like the weather might be a bit better today, so Bob and I are going out for a nice walk now.

Stay safe,

Alan

PS. If we are sure the 83C thermostat will be of any use to a 240 owner I'll post a 'free to a good home' ad in the 140 section of the forum I've just found when I have a mo. Maybe there is a 140 owner fairly close to Corby that might collect (after the lock-down is done).

PPS. Onlinecarparts have been a bit slow sending the new expansion cap - I have just received an email saying it has been dispatched today (the fourth day since ordering). I'm not really in a rush for the part, which is just as well.

PPPS... now it is time for Bob walking :-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

Negative, 'L.S.', and the production figures at the back don't help because they are not broken down by country. I do believe that a few may have found their way here - I've a feeling there was one at the BKV a few years back - maybe the 2-series register keeper could help?

Yes to Italy; their tax system was punitive towards 2 litre plus cars.

Regards, John.

I'd heard that about Italy also John.

[loki_the_glt]

Have a look at this thread:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=303961

That car has a B20 engine. Like many others I had assumed that the OHV lump only went into early U.S.-spec cars, forgetting Italy's punitive engine-capacity taxes.

It was also a vertical rather than a slant-4; the slant-4 configuration was, I believe, to retain the existing waist-line as the 200s are essentially identical to the 140/160 cars behind the bulkhead. Vauxhall's and Triumph's slant-4 started life as one bank of a V8 - stillborn in the Vauxhall, used in the Stag for Triumph.

There WAS a Ferrari 208; it had a turbocharged 2-litre version of the V8 that, in 3-litre form, powered the 308GTB and GTS.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

PS. If we are sure the 83C thermostat will be of any use to a 240 owner I'll post a 'free to a good home' ad in the 140 section of the forum I've just found when I have a mo. Maybe there is a 140 owner fairly close to Corby that might collect (after the lock-down is done).

If the 'stat fits the 360 then it is in fact suitable for the B19 and NOT the B20 Alan. Later 2.0 OHC engines were usually referred to as the B200.
As i tried explaining before, generally speaking the 240 was regarded as only having the OHC engine so when the manufacturer was putting the catalogue together, they obviously looked at the capcity (1986cc) and assumed it was the B20 when in fact, it was either a B19 or B200 if it's OHC. As it's listed for the 360 as well as the 240, everything points to the 'stat you've received being suitable for the OHC engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_B18_engine

Have a read of that, it explains the OHV engine and also has links to the OHC engine and the vehicle that the B20 survived in until about 1980/81, the C202 Laplander.

As for the 'stat in general, if it is suitable for the 360 (B19) then it will also be suitable for the B21, B23 and other OHC engines but is a bit cool for most use in this country. If we suddenly get a tropical style heatwave it might be an option to fit it to yours but given your use of the RB, you wouldn't gain any benefit and would be better leaving the 92C 'stat in place.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

Have a look at this thread:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=303961

That car has a B20 engine. Like many others I had assumed that the OHV lump only went into early U.S.-spec cars, forgetting Italy's punitive engine-capacity taxes.

It was also a vertical rather than a slant-4; the slant-4 configuration was, I believe, to retain the existing waist-line as the 200s are essentially identical to the 140/160 cars behind the bulkhead. Vauxhall's and Triumph's slant-4 started life as one bank of a V8 - stillborn in the Vauxhall, used in the Stag for Triumph.

There WAS a Ferrari 208; it had a turbocharged 2-litre version of the V8 that, in 3-litre form, powered the 308GTB and GTS.

Ah, I remember looking at the 'let's start dancing' thread a while ago, but had not picked up on it being a B20 engine. I'm guessing the B21 was only manufactured as a 2.1 or 2.3 litre, so the 1986cc versions listed in the Book of Haynes and by Autodata must refer to B20 engines, either very early on or for the Italian market.

I'm pleased I remembered about Ferrari making a 2 litre V8 for its home market - the most frustrating thing about getting older is memory loss (well, eyesight gradually deteriorating as well), so I'm happy that I recalled that more or less correctly.

Stay safe.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

If the 'stat fits the 360 then it is in fact suitable for the B19 and NOT the B20 Alan. Later 2.0 OHC engines were usually referred to as the B200.
As i tried explaining before, generally speaking the 240 was regarded as only having the OHC engine so when the manufacturer was putting the catalogue together, they obviously looked at the capcity (1986cc) and assumed it was the B20 when in fact, it was either a B19 or B200 if it's OHC. As it's listed for the 360 as well as the 240, everything points to the 'stat you've received being suitable for the OHC engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_B18_engine

Have a read of that, it explains the OHV engine and also has links to the OHC engine and the vehicle that the B20 survived in until about 1980/81, the C202 Laplander.

As for the 'stat in general, if it is suitable for the 360 (B19) then it will also be suitable for the B21, B23 and other OHC engines but is a bit cool for most use in this country. If we suddenly get a tropical style heatwave it might be an option to fit it to yours but given your use of the RB, you wouldn't gain any benefit and would be better leaving the 92C 'stat in place.

I'm sort of tempted to fit the 83C item and try it out for a few days Dave - just to see what happens. It would only take 15 minutes to drain a bit of water out and change it over - perhaps if I get bored this afternoon. We'll see - I'm just curious.

I'm hoping the new plugs will show up with the postie this morn, if they do I'll repeat the compression test (but properly this time) and fit them.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

Have a look at this thread:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=303961

That car has a B20 engine. Like many others I had assumed that the OHV lump only went into early U.S.-spec cars, forgetting Italy's punitive engine-capacity taxes.

It was also a vertical rather than a slant-4; the slant-4 configuration was, I believe, to retain the existing waist-line as the 200s are essentially identical to the 140/160 cars behind the bulkhead. Vauxhall's and Triumph's slant-4 started life as one bank of a V8 - stillborn in the Vauxhall, used in the Stag for Triumph.

There WAS a Ferrari 208; it had a turbocharged 2-litre version of the V8 that, in 3-litre form, powered the 308GTB and GTS.

Interesting stuff about that blue beastie! It looks like it may have originated in Italy?

I wonder if some of the early 240s got the B20 because it was shorter than the B21? I always understood the reason for canting the B21 over by 20 degrees to make it a slant 4 was to reduce the bonnet line/preserve the waistline of the 240 as well.