Steering: 850: Front tyre wear and alignment?

[Stu B]

Hi All,

I wonder if anyone can help with this? It's many years since I had the piece of string and spirit level etc. out to set up the tracking on any car but think it may be time somehow.

My car is a 1995 Volvo 850, owned about 2.5 years and over that time I've fitted a new clutch (relevant as I had to drop the front subframe), new front right wishbone, all new shocks, top mounts, ARB links and various other stuff. Anyway, I fitted a new set of tyres about this time last year, they've done around 4000 miles and the outer edge of the fronts is looking quite worn whereas the rest of the tread is fine and the rears look close to new.

The tyres are always inflated to the correct pressures, I don't drive it especially hard around corners though it has always had a slightly light feeling on the steering negotiating sweeping bends, large roundabouts, and the steering feels to me like it self centres more than it should as if the alignment it out somewhere. Doesn't inspire confidence on damp cornering to me (I'm comparing to my E30 BMW, previous newer model P2 V70 I had and that kind of thing, nothing fancy). The ride is great, wheels balanced, no funny noises.

Would this point to tracking issues at the front only, perhaps worn rear suspension bushes (I believe there is rear adjustment on these and they do need four wheel alignment) or something else?

I just did a rough measurement of the front camber side to side for comparison (just using iPhone spirit level against a block of wood vertically across wheel rim, wheels loaded on flat ground) and appear to have a few degrees positive camber front right, zero on the left. This tallies with the fact that I could never get the front right top mount to sit centrally within the hole in the suspension mount (three bolts at top) whereas the left does. Makes me wonder if the subframe may be fitted a little off as there is very little room for camber adjustment with the mounting of the steering knuckle to strut though I did tighten that up in a position to provide negative or zero camber if at all possible?

Anyway, I'm rambling - any advice appreciated and will a garage with the right equipment be arsed to do a decent job aligning it, or should I get my string out and read up on how to do it? My brother in law does his race car this way and swears by it and to be honest I'm always loathe to go to a garage with an older car as they are often dismissed as 'good enough', whereas for me it has to be just right. I should say, steering wheel is centred perfectly, never touched track rod ends though did disturb the rack of course when doing the clutch.

Cheers
Stu

[jack taylor]

Hi Stu B, I would suggest taking your car to a garage that uses lazer alignment and have all four wheels done. Its the only accurate way of measuring.

[Stu B]

Thanks, Jack - that is true but the piece of string method is surprisingly accurate when done properly and certainly a very good starting point after changing parts.

I suppose my question is more whether I could have introduced positive camber the front right wheel by changing the wishbone, disturbing the subframe, changing the shocks and top mounts etc. and how to correct it if so, before setting up the tracking.

The standard strut to steering knuckle setup at the front gives little camber adjustment, maybe one degree if you force the strut towards the inner wheel arch whilst tightening the bolts. More than that looks to need eccentric bolts but with standard strings (standard ride height) shouldn't be required?

Any thoughts? I'm certainly happy to take the car for four wheel alignment once I get it close at home and am sure it's required. I know T5s are heavy on front tyre wear but I would have thought in the UK the left front would take more load due to traffic islands being clockwise?

[jack taylor]

Hi Stu B, for whatever reason your front wheels are toeing in. I would have thought your first job is to have 4 wheel lazer alignment carried out. Not wishing to be rude but were a length of string and wooden block be accurate then that's all garages would use.

[Stu B]

No problem, and of course with the correct operation (and operator) laser alignment gear should be more accurate than DIY methods, but that isn't always the case. It may surprise you that race teams often still use the basic parallel wires down the side of the car and manually measuring method. Done properly, it's extremely accurate.

Setting toe in/out if you're going to alter camber anyway isn't a good idea, as camber changes will in turn impact toe settings, so a trip back to have the alignment done again once I work out what's throwing that wheel out of spec camber wise.

I'm more concerned about whether anyone has ever refitted the subframe, or a replacement wishbone, or Bilstein shocks like me, then had trouble getting the camber back into spec?

[Cookeh]

I fit Bilstein B4s to mine and had no issues with alignment or camber afterwards. In fact I had no changes to my alignment.

If you didn't set the parts you removed when changing the clutch back to where they were before hand then it is entirely possible to affect alignment. In particular camber can be affected by control arms.

I'd definitely get an alignment done. To be honest I always get one done after any suspension work. Alignment will also correct camber.

[Luxobarge]

If you want to do it yourself, I can strongly recommend the Gunson Trakrite tool - I've used mine many times, and since doing the V70 with it tyre life has more than doubled, with nice even wear across the width of the front tyres. As with all Gunson tools though, do follow the instructions, especially the bit about doing it on a smooth flat surface.

Mine's paid for itself many times over. Just a thought?

[cyclogenesis]

I had exactly the same problem for years always getting scrubbing on the outside of the tyres despite being aligned regularly. Finally took it to a shop that did the alignment by driving forward over some pads and it is now solved.

[pookie]

I don't know where in Cheshire you are but can really recommend APB motorsport near Crewe 01270 567177. Not only do they have Hunter equipment they have the staff who know how to use it.

Salut!
Pookie

[Stu B]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the replies and info on here, it is much appreciated. I haven't had chance to reply but have made progress and hopefully this is sorted now (see below) but to reply to a few posters first.

Originally Posted by Cookeh

If you didn't set the parts you removed when changing the clutch back to where they were before hand then it is entirely possible to affect alignment. In particular camber can be affected by control arms.

I did definitely set everything back to where it was, but agree - anything that has any adjustment in it's mounting, or changing any parts could affect alignment. Control arms and subframe mountings don't have any movement in them, different length control arms certainly would impact the setup though if you replace one and it's not an exact match for the one coming off.

Certainly the knuckle where the shock mounts to the hub has a little bit of slack in the two holes when you tighten up, so there is scope to get a few degrees of camber one way or another there.

Originally Posted by Luxobarge

If you want to do it yourself, I can strongly recommend the Gunson Trakrite tool - I've used mine many times, and since doing the V70 with it tyre life has more than doubled, with nice even wear across the width of the front tyres.

Thanks, I have looked at these before but never got around to buying one - I will add to the Christmas list as no one ever knows what to get me and with a few cars to maintain it should come in very handy.

Originally Posted by cyclogenesis

I had exactly the same problem for years always getting scrubbing on the outside of the tyres despite being aligned regularly. Finally took it to a shop that did the alignment by driving forward over some pads and it is now solved.

This sounds similar to how the Gunson tool mentioned above works

Originally Posted by pookie

I don't know where in Cheshire you are but can really recommend APB motorsport near Crewe 01270 567177. Not only do they have Hunter equipment they have the staff who know how to use it.

Cheers, Pookie - I will bear them in mind in future, not too far away.

Anyway, what did I do....

Firstly, I dismantled the front right where most of the problems seemed to be camber wise, loosened top mount to chassis bolts, then the strut to hub bolts, and held the shock in a position to give maximum negative camber. Tightened everything back up, test drove and immediately it felt much better. Drove up and down the drive a bit afterwards to settle it, checked camber again with the iPhone spirit level and could see it was much closer now showing around 0 - 1 deg positive, rather than 2 - 3 deg I had previously. Drove the car for a few days and the steering wasn't pulling to self centre out of left hand T-junctions like previously, and generally felt a lot better.

I had a look at the track rod ends to see if I'd stand a chance of loosening the lock nuts at home and decided probably not as they looked like they'd not moved in decades. As such, today I dropped the car off to my favourite local garage that originally fitted the tyres as it had a slow puncture to fix. I asked them to have a look at the alignment while it was there explaining all the bits I've changed and tyre wear symptoms.

When I picked it up they'd had trouble getting the track rod end lock nuts to shift (which makes me think I'd have been swearing at it for hours on the driveway and potentially failed anyway) as it took them over an hour, but sorted it for £35 in addition to the puncture fix. Apparently it wasn't too far out at all, but a little too much toe in (which tallies with the tyre wear) so they've toed it out a little to the correct specs I gave them. I've only driven a few miles home but all seems fine, steering wheel dead straight, no tram lining, pulling, minimal self centering feel, much better.

The track rod end nuts are nicely copper greased now so I can DIY it in future if needed but hopefully if I leave well alone it'll wear the tyres evenly now and behave itself

Cheers
Stu