Are 460's really getting that rare?

[foggyjames]

I think the danger with the 400s (and by that I mean 440/460s...as you say, 480s are in a different position) is that they'll almost all be gone before they're "wanted" in numbers again. It'll be the same with many 90s cars...it's the problem that each generation of older car becomes less desirable as a classic. Or to put it another way, classics don't get any newer as time marches on. Today we have Classics (1950-1970?), Retro (1970-1990?), but anything 90-95 is just a banger in no-man's land. Of course the scrappage scheme didn't help - barely touched 300s, but will have seen the back of plenty of 400s and early S/V40s, for example.

I know the guy who now has the yellow mk1 343

Agreed about drifting being misunderstood...starting with many of the drifters. V3M has a reputation for being anti-drift, but I don't think that's true. Many of us are against people who don't respect their cars, whether or not they're drifters...but quite like a spot of sideways action when the mood takes us. There is a specific objection with the drift crowd buying the best cars to use as disposable toys, when there are plenty of scruffy cars which could be smashed up with no-one shedding much of a tear. Of course the cars which are driven by people who know what they're doing can be as nice as you like...I'm perfectly fine with that. The cars Nev has built, for example, are as close to works of art as a 300 can be.

As I said, I find it hard to love the 400s. I'm sure they're fine cars (and I'm aware that the handling is far better than most people would imagine), but they just don't push my buttons. I'm very happy that people are finally taking more of an interest in them, though...especially the older ones, which somehow look more 'pure' to me. I do plan to own a 480 at some point, though...probably just for a few months, so I can say I've done it.

cheers

James

[AndyPants]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

As I said, I find it hard to love the 400s

I think thats the main problem, especially if people have never owned one and just base it on the old beaded seat covers/flat cap brigade although personally I'd argue the 300 series as being a worse offender in that regard... well up until about 2000 perhaps!

My 460 was great and I'd be very tempted to another primarily to get a car thats better on fuel without being a diesel. Infact I enquired about a 440 a few months ago which they were asking top money for, unfortunately like just about all 400 series nowadays the rear arches were beginning to go and it was too expensive to justify despite the low mileage.

To muddy the waters some more, most people much prefer the S/V40s but although I'm sure there good cars, infact a friend owns a very nice one, I somehow personally preferred my 460. Yes it was only a 1.6, yes no matter how much your pressed the accelerator it didn't seem to make much of a difference to performance (it went '460 speed' ), the engine sounded a bit grumbly when pushed and the live rear axle amusingly felt like it was going to propel the back of the car sideways when hitting a pot hole when going round a corner, but I enjoyed driving it They're light cars with spacious interiors for the size, especially compared to S/V40s. I even had some fun hustling it down some country lanes when there was only me in the car (it was a 1.6 after all!).

Also my 460 even converted my older brother who after driving it a few times agrees it was a good car which is unusual of him to say about my cars. He also agreed whilst not fast the engine felt right for the car and it drove well.

[foggyjames]

I agree - I'd probably not be into 300s had I not grown up with one.

I think where the 400s fall down compared with 300s on "old car charm" is that they're a bit too sensible...a bit lacking in character. 480s have it, with their wacky styling. 300s have it just for being quirky (and for the novel mechanical layout), but the 440/460 are a bit too..."normal", or...if you like..."good" to have the X-factor which draws people in. I think that's why there's not much interest in them. It's true of an awful lot of early 90s cars, to be fair. When did you last see a Cavalier? That's why I hope plenty do get saved, as there's a danger they'll be ignored until they're all gone.

cheers

James

[Chris_C]

Originally Posted by AndyPants

I think thats the main problem, especially if people have never owned one and just base it on the old beaded seat covers/flat cap brigade although personally I'd argue the 300 series as being a worse offender in that regard... well up until about 2000 perhaps!

After that I'd say, I got my first in... erm... 2001? probably and people still didn't give them the time of day.

I think you are both right though, the thing is people are prepared now to see that the 300 was designed in the 70's with the same mentality towards the driving as Avengers and such of the era. Which means they actually become quite fun to play with. All the bad press for 300's came very late in it's life, just saying how "it hadn't changed and become modern". The early press praised it's handling characteristics. The thing that it was derided for has now become it's biggest asset, it drives like an older rwd car even though it should be 10 years newer.

I'm of similar opinion to Foggy, though I feel a hypocrite for it. I'd hate for 400's to die out. We all know they have and will have more often the same parts issues that we 300 owners do and this is going to take a *lot* of work to solve, maybe some inter model talking will make this easier as you lot use a lot of the same mechanicals we do. The thing is, I've owned a 480T, my favourite car of my parents was their Paris Blue 440GLEi and I taught my mate to drive in a mk2 on an N plate. I just couldn't save one myself. I hate how they drive, I can't stand the dashboard layouts or plastic now when I used to like it and I just couldn't devote the time to one like I have my 300's without the interest

I hope there are enough people with that interest so that I do still see them about.

[AndyPants]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

I think where the 400s fall down compared with 300s on "old car charm" is that they're a bit too sensible...a bit lacking in character. 480s have it, with their wacky styling. 300s have it just for being quirky (and for the novel mechanical layout), but the 440/460 are a bit too..."normal", or...if you like..."good" to have the X-factor which draws people in. I think that's why there's not much interest in them. It's true of an awful lot of early 90s cars, to be fair. When did you last see a Cavalier? That's why I hope plenty do get saved, as there's a danger they'll be ignored until they're all gone.

Yeah I can see where your coming from and I guess thats why some people prefer the older shape 440/460s over the later ones in that there more distinctive. I have to admit I see an earlyish white 460 round here on a fairly regular basis but its a bit of a mess with the doors all rusted on the bottom - mmm looks great on a white car....

I think overall I prefer the look of the mk2 440/460s as I like that they look like a 'mini-850' and with the right spec I think they look pretty smart much like a well kitted mk1. Base models usually look pretty dire, bit like the newer C30s... they scream 'old biddy wagon' to me!

And yep I agree about the lack of 90s cars although I do very occasionally see the odd mid-90s cavalier, rarer I'd say would be a mk1 mondeo which is amazing when you think how many there were!

Originally Posted by Chris_C

After that I'd say, I got my first in... erm... 2001? probably and people still didn't give them the time of day.

I think you are both right though, the thing is people are prepared now to see that the 300 was designed in the 70's with the same mentality towards the driving as Avengers and such of the era. Which means they actually become quite fun to play with. All the bad press for 300's came very late in it's life, just saying how "it hadn't changed and become modern". The early press praised it's handling characteristics. The thing that it was derided for has now become it's biggest asset, it drives like an older rwd car even though it should be 10 years newer.

I'm of similar opinion to Foggy, though I feel a hypocrite for it. I'd hate for 400's to die out. We all know they have and will have more often the same parts issues that we 300 owners do and this is going to take a *lot* of work to solve, maybe some inter model talking will make this easier as you lot use a lot of the same mechanicals we do. The thing is, I've owned a 480T, my favourite car of my parents was their Paris Blue 440GLEi and I taught my mate to drive in a mk2 on an N plate. I just couldn't save one myself. I hate how they drive, I can't stand the dashboard layouts or plastic now when I used to like it and I just couldn't devote the time to one like I have my 300's without the interest

I hope there are enough people with that interest so that I do still see them about.

Yeah I suppose 2000 would be a bit early for the real 'revolution' of interest. These days a 10 year old+ 340 would seem like a new car... Good point about the RWD old-style handling characteristics, I'd have to admit despite the fact my 760 is a barge and does very much drive like an 80s car it does have a lot of charm and feels 'right'. The danger comes, as today, when I go around a fast bend as I would in my C70 then remember its got soft suspension... can come as a bit of a surprise

Have to admit I admire the following the 300 series has received, its especially amazing, as you say, with how much bad press it got 'back in the day'. Unfortunately I suspect the 440/460 will eventually sink without a trace

All I can say is if I changed my cars a 440/460 would be 'in the running' I should probably also say that my 460 was my first Volvo although we'd had three already in the family by that point over the years, but the first 'small one'!

[foggyjames]

Originally Posted by AndyPants

its especially amazing, as you say, with how much bad press it got 'back in the day'.

I think it speaks volumes about motoring journalists

cheers

James

[terrywilde07]

Originally Posted by AndyPants

All I can say is if I changed my cars a 440/460 would be 'in the running' I should probably also say that my 460 was my first Volvo although we'd had three already in the family by that point over the years, but the first 'small one'!

I got my 91(J) 460 GLEi auto six months ago to run around in while I restored my S90 Executive to its former glory, I'm enjoying the 460 so much that I've been a bit slack on the restoration...{{tut}} I've had the 460 MOT'd last Tuesday and it passed with flying colours, NO ADVISORIES, the emissions test was a shock too, it falls under the 3.5 emissions test and the first part of the gas test (normal idle) was so low it didn't ask for a fast idle test (2500rpm), it was actually lower than a 06 Vectra which was tested just before my 460, not bad for an original 20 year old B18EP engine...

all I've done to the car since I bought it is replace the exhaust from the Cat to the tail trim & the rotor arm/dizzy cap

[AndyPants]

Originally Posted by terrywilde07

I got my 91(J) 460 GLEi auto six months ago to run around in while I restored my S90 Executive to its former glory, I'm enjoying the 460 so much that I've been a bit slack on the restoration...{{tut}} I've had the 460 MOT'd last Tuesday and it passed with flying colours, NO ADVISORIES, the emissions test was a shock too, it falls under the 3.5 emissions test and the first part of the gas test (normal idle) was so low it didn't ask for a fast idle test (2500rpm), it was actually lower than a 06 Vectra which was tested just before my 460, not bad for an original 20 year old B18EP engine...

all I've done to the car since I bought it is replace the exhaust from the Cat to the tail trim & the rotor arm/dizzy cap

I think my 460, and all the Volvos have all been pretty similar in that regard. The 460 and surprisingly the 850 barely registered. Don't think I've had a print out for my C70 or 760 so can't really compare. I always thought I ought to get free tax for the 850 especially as obviously it was an Eco-machine (or more likely a hole in the exhaust somewhere we thought!!!)

My 460 was also basically trouble free

[jakobandhismakarov]

They're still out there, it seems!



Here's a phase 2 460 I spotted in the works car park today.

[Hell Driver]

I'm not at all active on here, although I do have a 440, an early 1.7 Turbo. I've had it since about 2002 but took it off the road in 2007 with yet another seized rear brake caliper and a loose CV boot. Without a Volvo on the road till 2009/10 when I got a 300 or 2 back on the road, the 400 has been very much neglected. Started and moved regularly and garaged for a couple of years it's not suffered too much but is getting overlooked, very much the story of the 400!

I'd love to get it back on the road but to many projects on the go. (the porche isn't one of them!)
It's got pretty rusty rear arches but that's about the worst thing about it.
It always appears behind in the photos of the 300's !!

I quite like it for the chunky 90's Volvo appearance and speed of the Turbo.
I don't think I'd bother with a non-turbo or later version though.
I've kept it this long I don't want to part with it, although I someone offered enough cash I might be tempted as it's needs to be used.