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Another PowerPulse blowout...

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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 00:34   #11
Giles1234
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I think they can go at anytime, regardless of whether the pump is running or not. There must be a safety blow-off valve otherwise we'd be driving around in a potential bomb!

I had one replaced about a month ago. The service manager said that they are now replacing burst pipes with upgraded pipes. So Volvo must have identified a manufacturing fault with the original pipes that is causing them to fail, rather than system over-pressure bursting them.
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 09:39   #12
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As Clan mentioned, there's no valve between the receiver tank and hose so whatever pressure is maintained in the tank by the pump is also present in the full length of hose up to the turbo's PP inlet valve next to the engine.

There will be a pressure actuated switch on the receiver which will shut off the pump at 250psi (value quoted by Clan) so unless *that* switch malfunctions, the hose pressure will not exceed 250psi.

Clearly the crimped joints between hose and unions are not fit for purpose given the conditions in which they are expected to operate - vibration, rapid temperature changes, heat, and pressure. These conditions are hardly unique, otherwise similar fittings would be failing all over industry.

When I booked the car in this morning, the service chap also mentioned Volvo has updated the pipe so time will tell if this recurring problem has been solved once and for all.

My only concern now is that my compressor pump will be running continuously until the hose is replaced on Friday.

Steve
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 10:23   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldex View Post
Right, and that’s how I understand it should work. Now if you’ve been riding at constant speed for a while- ie. the tank is full- why would the pump be adding more air to the system? Also- who in the world would design such a setup without a safety blowoff valve?!

This is the first actual video of a blowout that I have seen- and up until now I have been assuming that it blows shortly after a quick acceleration- ie. when pump is working at the max.
How do you know the pump is still running when you are driving along with the powerpulse inactive ? what makes you think there is no safety valve ? The safety valve blows at 23 bar if there is a fault with the pump not stopping ..
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 10:44   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldex View Post
Also- who in the world would design such a setup without a safety blowoff valve?!
There's a mechanical safety valve that opens at 23 bar. Normal (maintained) operating pressure is 19 bar, dropping to about 11 bar after a pulse.

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Originally Posted by scw View Post

When I booked the car in this morning, the service chap also mentioned Volvo has updated the pipe so time will tell if this recurring problem has been solved once and for all.
Unfortunately we've been told that before. I'm currently on my third PP hose.

Quote:
My only concern now is that my compressor pump will be running continuously until the hose is replaced on Friday.
The ECM monitors operation of the PP system and if it detects that the pressure in the air reservoir isn't increasing at a pre-defined rate (ie there's a leak) it disables the pump and logs an error code. PP remains disabled until the error code is cleared.
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 11:29   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clan View Post
How do you know the pump is still running when you are driving along with the powerpulse inactive ? what makes you think there is no safety valve ? The safety valve blows at 23 bar if there is a fault with the pump not stopping ..
Well why would it be running if there are no leaks? You get a single shot of air on takeoff, pressure in the system drops from 19 to 11 psi (per Lexman8), pump takes, say, a minute to pump it back to 19- and it shuts off. And I assume it should stay off, so long I'm not stabbing it on a traffic light (my understanding the system is only kicking in for acceleration from standstill..)

@scw: I have also seen pics of a blown hose (armored rubber part - not the alu joint..) so clearly the whole assembly is not fit for purpose.. And they seem to be replacing it with a same part..

It's quite embarrassing that something that was announced as a revolutionary innovation in turbodiesel technology- has become a synonymous for failure.. And by having discontinued it after 2-3 yrs Volvo has admitted the failure.
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 11:52   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldex View Post
Well why would it be running if there are no leaks? You get a single shot of air on takeoff, pressure in the system drops from 19 to 11 psi (per Lexman8), pump takes, say, a minute to pump it back to 19- and it shuts off. And I assume it should stay off, so long I'm not stabbing it on a traffic light (my understanding the system is only kicking in for acceleration from standstill..)

@scw: I have also seen pics of a blown hose (armored rubber part - not the alu joint..) so clearly the whole assembly is not fit for purpose.. And they seem to be replacing it with a same part..

It's quite embarrassing that something that was announced as a revolutionary innovation in turbodiesel technology- has become a synonymous for failure.. And by having discontinued it after 2-3 yrs Volvo has admitted the failure.
i don't really understand , are you saying your pump is running all the time whilst the system is primed and ready for use ?

The reason that have now discontinued powerpulse is that there is now an electric motor to help the torque at low rpm instead .. it hasn't admitted failure , technology moves on !
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 12:16   #17
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Well, if it blows the hose- it means the pressure exceeded the hose rating - which, I hope, is more than the operating pressure of 19 bar. So I assume it blows because the pump doesn't stop at 19 bar.

Clan, you know that I love Volvos- love the cars, love the brand, love their philosophy in general. But hybrid powertrains have existed loooong before PP was invented- even mild hybrids are older than PP. Volvo introduced PP - and after a 3 yr run- they went mainstream, discontinued the air pump and went hybrid- like virtually all other car manufacturers.. Reminds me of the infamous VW G-ladder saga..
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 12:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldex View Post
Well, if it blows the hose- it means the pressure exceeded the hose rating - which, I hope, is more than the operating pressure of 19 bar. So I assume it blows because the pump doesn't stop at 19 bar.

Clan, you know that I love Volvos- love the cars, love the brand, love their philosophy in general. But hybrid powertrains have existed loooong before PP was invented- even mild hybrids are older than PP. Volvo introduced PP - and after a 3 yr run- they went mainstream, discontinued the air pump and went hybrid- like virtually all other car manufacturers.. Reminds me of the infamous VW G-ladder saga..
The hose is well reinforced , but follows a tortuous route from the tank in front of the drivers front wheel , it goes up the side and across the moving gearbox through clamps and has some tight turns , I'm pretty sure the hose pressure rating is adequate , its probably something like 500 psi or more . The tank mechanical safety valve would be set way below the bursting point of the hose ...

It is only recently that an electric motor has been added to assist the engine itself ( actually its the high voltage Alternator used as a motor ... ) Volvo also have a motor / generator in the flywheel on the upper hybrids ..

Have a trouble free Christmas anyway ! Best wishes 🎅
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 12:51   #19
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Some additional info for those interested:

Power Pulse is initiated when the following conditions are met:
  • Gas pedal position > 36%.
  • Gas pedal movement speed is > 100%/s.
  • Auto box is in gear 1 or 2, regardless of automatic or manual mode.
  • The engine speed < 2000 rpm.
  • Air valve calculated temperature is > +5C.
  • Ambient temperature > -15C.
Gear 2 and 2000 rpm is approximately 30 km/h.

Filling the system after a pulse takes about 40 seconds. Time to fill the system from being completely empty (1 bar) to 19 bar takes about 80 seconds. Two successive pulses are normally available.

As well as the safety valve, there is a an over-temperature sensor on the compressor which operates at 125C. This isn't a permanent error condition so when the temperature subsequently falls below about 120C the compressor will resume operation.

No errors or messages concerning PP are displayed to the driver.
_
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PowerPulse 0.jpg (204.3 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg PowerPulse 1.jpg (99.0 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg PowerPulse 2.jpg (105.9 KB, 34 views)
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Old Dec 16th, 2019, 13:00   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexman8 View Post
Some additional info for those interested:

Power Pulse is initiated when the following conditions are met:
  • Gas pedal position > 36%.
  • Gas pedal movement speed is > 100%/s.
  • Auto box is in gear 1 or 2, regardless of automatic or manual mode.
  • The engine speed < 2000 rpm.
  • Air valve calculated temperature is > +5C.
  • Ambient temperature > -15C.
Gear 2 and 2000 rpm is approximately 30 km/h.

Filling the system after a pulse takes about 40 seconds. Time to fill the system from being completely empty (1 bar) to 19 bar takes about 80 seconds. Two successive pulses are normally available.

As well as the safety valve, there is a an over-temperature sensor on the compressor which operates at 125C. This isn't a permanent error condition so when the temperature subsequently falls below about 120C the compressor will resume operation.

No errors or messages concerning PP are displayed to the driver.
_
There is also a pressure sensor so that the ECU can cut the pump if there is a leak ...
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