760 GLE 1990 B280E antifreeze decision

[diccapilly]

Hello all,

My Volvo 760 GLE 1990 with engine B280E has red coolant (it was originally blue).

According to my records I think the coolant must have changed from blue to red in 2013, during a service and renewed in August 2016 with Comma XstG30 along with as new radiator.

I noticed today that the level of coolant is close to the min level so I thought I would top it up but I see that the XstG30 is an Organic Additive Technology based coolant and not an ethylene glycol based coolant, as recommended.

Do I need to be concerned about this?

My thoughts are to top up with distilled water and during the summer adequately flush the engine and replace with Comma G64 or something better suited but I wonder was the coolant changed for a good reason and should I continue using it.

I've not experienced any problems so far. Could they be brewing as I have heard horror stories about mixing the two and the resulting sludge?

Any thoughts on the subject will be much appreciated.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by diccapilly

Hello all,

My Volvo 760 GLE 1990 with engine B280E has red coolant (it was originally blue).

According to my records I think the coolant must have changed from blue to red in 2013, during a service and renewed in August 2016 with Comma XstG30 along with as new radiator.

I noticed today that the level of coolant is close to the min level so I thought I would top it up but I see that the XstG30 is an Organic Additive Technology based coolant and not an ethylene glycol based coolant, as recommended.

Do I need to be concerned about this?

My thoughts are to top up with distilled water and during the summer adequately flush the engine and replace with Comma G64 or something better suited but I wonder was the coolant changed for a good reason and should I continue using it.

I've not experienced any problems so far. Could they be brewing as I have heard horror stories about mixing the two and the resulting sludge?

Any thoughts on the subject will be much appreciated.

Your garage needs shooting!

Organic Acid Technology antifreeze was developed by the Japanese in the late 90s for use in all-aluminium engines as it was (slightly) less corrosive to the aluminium than ethylene glycol was.

However, it also meant producing a complete new range of gaskets as the OAT coolant tended to eat them.

Another side effect is one you allude to in your post - that of the acid in the OAT antifreeze precipitating the silicate content of the ethylene glycol coolant out of solution and then forming a silicone gel.

My advice would be firstly to drain the system by removing the bottom hose from the radiator, remove the thermostat and refit the 'stat housing. Now remove the radiator top hose at the radiator and shove a garden hose into the the top hose and turn the garden hose on. Go and have a cup of tea/coffee/beverage of you choice for at least half an hour.

Check to make sure the water is running clear, if so, turn the garden hose off and remove it.
Remove the 'stat housing once again and squeeze the bottom hose to eject some water from the housing, enough to be able to add some cooling system flushing agent - Comma XStream is a good one, especially the heavy duty stuff..

Refit the 'stat and housing, top hose and top up the system via the expansion tank, squeezing the bottom hose to "burp" the system.
Run it up to temperature either by driving or for 15-20 minutes in the driveway and allow to cool, preferably overnight.
Next day, run it up to temperature again and allow to cool.

Again, remove the thermostat and refit the 'stat housing. Now remove the radiator top hose at the radiator and shove a garden hose into the the top hose and turn the garden hose on. Go and have a cup of tea/coffee/beverage of you choice for at least half an hour.

Check to make sure the water is running clear, if so, turn the garden hose off and remove it.
Remove the bottom hose from the rad to drain the majority of the now-clean water from the cooling system. Refit everything and top up the system with 5L of ethylene glycol antifreeze concentrate. Don't use the pre-mixed stuff, you won't get the mixture right.

Now top up to the correct level with the garden hose/clean water via the expansion tank. Refit the cap and warm the engine up, preferably with the car facing uphill.
Allow to cool, preferably overnight and check the level in the morning, topping up if necessary with water - remember it already has the 5L of ethylene glycol antifreeze in so the concentration will be correct.

Hopefully you've caught it in time before any silicone gel "plugs" have formed and any that are starting to form will be flushed away using this method. It's a lot of words to describe a couple of relatively simple tasks and so far, this method has never failed me for normal antifreeze changes and fortunately i haven't had to use it to change out an undesirable antifreeze. However, every other antifreeze change i flush the system using a flushing agent, i do a reverse flush (as described above) when i change the antifreeze normally though.

I would advise doing this yourself, garages can be prone to doing the bare minimum which could result in making matters worse, at least if you follow these instructions you have a relatively good chance of saving your engine before it blows any head gaskets!

[Clan]

Originally Posted by diccapilly

Hello all,

My Volvo 760 GLE 1990 with engine B280E has red coolant (it was originally blue).

According to my records I think the coolant must have changed from blue to red in 2013, during a service and renewed in August 2016 with Comma XstG30 along with as new radiator.

I noticed today that the level of coolant is close to the min level so I thought I would top it up but I see that the XstG30 is an Organic Additive Technology based coolant and not an ethylene glycol based coolant, as recommended.

Do I need to be concerned about this?

My thoughts are to top up with distilled water and during the summer adequately flush the engine and replace with Comma G64 or something better suited but I wonder was the coolant changed for a good reason and should I continue using it.

I've not experienced any problems so far. Could they be brewing as I have heard horror stories about mixing the two and the resulting sludge?

Any thoughts on the subject will be much appreciated.

You need to flush it all out and get 5 litres of Genuine volvo coolant that will be the end of your coolant worries it will last you many many years ...and be a pleasant surprise to your wallet , you cant get better quality ...

[diccapilly]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Your garage needs shooting!

Organic Acid Technology antifreeze was developed by the Japanese in the late 90s for use in all-aluminium engines as it was (slightly) less corrosive to the aluminium than ethylene glycol was.

However, it also meant producing a complete new range of gaskets as the OAT coolant tended to eat them.

Another side effect is one you allude to in your post - that of the acid in the OAT antifreeze precipitating the silicate content of the ethylene glycol coolant out of solution and then forming a silicone gel.

My advice would be firstly to drain the system by removing the bottom hose from the radiator, remove the thermostat and refit the 'stat housing. Now remove the radiator top hose at the radiator and shove a garden hose into the the top hose and turn the garden hose on. Go and have a cup of tea/coffee/beverage of you choice for at least half an hour.

Check to make sure the water is running clear, if so, turn the garden hose off and remove it.
Remove the 'stat housing once again and squeeze the bottom hose to eject some water from the housing, enough to be able to add some cooling system flushing agent - Comma XStream is a good one, especially the heavy duty stuff..

Refit the 'stat and housing, top hose and top up the system via the expansion tank, squeezing the bottom hose to "burp" the system.
Run it up to temperature either by driving or for 15-20 minutes in the driveway and allow to cool, preferably overnight.
Next day, run it up to temperature again and allow to cool.

Again, remove the thermostat and refit the 'stat housing. Now remove the radiator top hose at the radiator and shove a garden hose into the the top hose and turn the garden hose on. Go and have a cup of tea/coffee/beverage of you choice for at least half an hour.

Check to make sure the water is running clear, if so, turn the garden hose off and remove it.
Remove the bottom hose from the rad to drain the majority of the now-clean water from the cooling system. Refit everything and top up the system with 5L of ethylene glycol antifreeze concentrate. Don't use the pre-mixed stuff, you won't get the mixture right.

Now top up to the correct level with the garden hose/clean water via the expansion tank. Refit the cap and warm the engine up, preferably with the car facing uphill.
Allow to cool, preferably overnight and check the level in the morning, topping up if necessary with water - remember it already has the 5L of ethylene glycol antifreeze in so the concentration will be correct.

Hopefully you've caught it in time before any silicone gel "plugs" have formed and any that are starting to form will be flushed away using this method. It's a lot of words to describe a couple of relatively simple tasks and so far, this method has never failed me for normal antifreeze changes and fortunately i haven't had to use it to change out an undesirable antifreeze. However, every other antifreeze change i flush the system using a flushing agent, i do a reverse flush (as described above) when i change the antifreeze normally though.

I would advise doing this yourself, garages can be prone to doing the bare minimum which could result in making matters worse, at least if you follow these instructions you have a relatively good chance of saving your engine before it blows any head gaskets!

Hello Dave,

Thank you for your speedy response and detailed remedy.

I was hoping to deal with this during better weather but this sounds urgent.

Many many thanks. Very much appreciated.

Steve

[diccapilly]

Originally Posted by Clan

You need to flush it all out and get 5 litres of Genuine volvo coolant that will be the end of your coolant worries it will last you many many years ...and be a pleasant surprise to your wallet , you cant get better quality ...

Hello Clan,

Thank you for your response.

I most definitely need to address this without delay.

I'll be looking into the Volvo coolant.

With Thanks.

Steve

[kelvinp]

My 740 had pink coolant in it when my dad bought it so flushing and changing this out was one of the early jobs I did when I had to change the water pump o ring which used to leak.

I used standard ethylene glycol blue anti-freeze.

I'm sure I'd read somewhere about having flushed with clean water and this remaining in the block diluting the anti-freeze concentration, so I added the correct amount of anti-freeze and then topped up with water. If I'd have realised where the drain tap was, this which drains most out of the block, so could probably have used coolant mix - I always buy the anti-freeze and mix my own. A hydrometer is also very useful for checking the strength.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by kelvinp

If I'd have realised where the drain tap was, this which drains most out of the block, so could probably have used coolant mix - I always buy the anti-freeze and mix my own. A hydrometer is also very useful for checking the strength.

The drain plug on the side of the block only drains the block - not the heater matrix or hoses in between.
My method above ensures that there is only clean water in the block, heater matrix and any hoses after removing the bottom hose then the correct amount of antifreeze for the mix is added, the rest being water by top up.

A lot of cars in general, the block mounted drain tap has a habit of siezing and or leaking so i find they're best ignored.

[bob12]

I use Comma Xstream G48 and have done so for many years.

Until a year or so ago it was the Comma website recommended anti-freeze for 700 Series. However since they have revamped their product range they now suggest G64.

I asked them a technical question about G64 at the time which they failed to answer satisfactorily (although I now note that their website description of G64 much more clear as to composition!!).

I continue to use and recommend G48 which is still supplied by Comma and readily available.

Bob

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by bob12

I use Comma Xstream G48 and have done so for many years.

Until a year or so ago it was the Comma website recommended anti-freeze for 700 Series. However since they have revamped their product range they now suggest G64.

I asked them a technical question about G64 at the time which they failed to answer satisfactorily (although I now note that their website description of G64 much more clear as to composition!!).

I continue to use and recommend G48 which is still supplied by Comma and readily available.

Bob

The one you suggest Bob (the G48 should be fine but i thought just out of interest, i'd see what it recommened for my Rover - experience has taught me if manufacturers are going to recommend the wrong fluid, they'll do it on that!

They didn't disappoint! They recommended G30 for that which is OAT so i looked up my Volvo.
First, they got the wrong engine type, they seem to think it's a B280F (it's a B280E just like the OPs) and they recommended G64 - yet another one with OAT stuff in it!

Worried by this, i reverted to the Rover look-up and looked for the ATF they recommend for it - Comma AQM!

Kiss of death for the gearbox in my Rover! It's a Dexron II-D replacement so would kill the bonding adhesive on the clutch linings.

Nice to see you did your homework and found the G48, if i go for a Comma antifreeze next time, that would be the one i pick. Won't be using their recommended ATF anytime soon though!

[griston64]

It was G48 that I used which was recommended for my car on a well known high street car suppliers website.

Comma website recommended G64 but luckily I'd seen Bob's posting so went with G48

Comma Super Coldmaster would be equally as good and slightly cheaper