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Is it getting too expensive?

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Old Mar 24th, 2020, 11:03   #21
Bashy
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I agree, but it only is part of the discussion .... the bigger question should be why are they available for sale, why were they replaced, after all is it not the same argument when buying a used car ... you don't know how the boots have been treated up until you purchased the car ... the question arises then from above ... when you buy a used car do you immediately change the boots?

Think the conclusion should be if you go down the used tyre road is buyer beware.

For my money, I'd just buy new boots ... after all it the only thing between you and the road , so even the £660 I spent on a new set of boots is not really very much for peace of mind, and remember no-one every bought a Volvo because it was inexpensive to run and maintain.

Each to their own, here end-ith the lesson/question, food for thought.

They come from Germany who have very strict standards, i think its if one needs changing, they all do, sommat like that, hence most come from there, og and they have a minimum tread of 3mm over there
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Old Mar 24th, 2020, 12:37   #22
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A tyre is nacked at 3mm, so that's not very reassuring. At that depth they lack the ability to tread water and should be replaced - every major tyre manufacturer (apart from Hankook) and RoSPA tell us this is so.

And yes, when I buy a used car (which isn't often) I replace all the boots anew. Once you've had to scrape a dead drivers brains out of the tread of your work boots you become very averse to taking risks with tyres in the name of merely saving money.
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Old Mar 24th, 2020, 14:01   #23
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..... since 2010 i have used Winters at least on the fronts, only issues with winters is the spinning at take off. I will always use PW's but then im a tight @ss, reason is the same as to why i never fill the tank, 1st time i do it will die on me lol A bonus of a PW is that you can choose the tyre(s) so you can normally get a good make although trying to find PW winters in 245/45/17 locally is like trying to find rocking horse poop.
.....Winters at least on the front ???

You own a Volvo for which you would have likely paid more to buy than a Mundano or a Vectra/Insignia of the same ago... and you want to save a for quid on second hand tyres and using winters only on the front??

Suggest you have a look on Youtube at videos with good/winter tyres on the front and less so on the rear. I'm not trying to score points on you but I genuinely think you might be shocked as to the potential consequences of what you are doing.

We can dabate used tyres all day but they way I see it would you be happy if your daughters' boyfriend was using a second hand condom? No...
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Old Mar 25th, 2020, 02:04   #24
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.....Winters at least on the front ???

You own a Volvo for which you would have likely paid more to buy than a Mundano or a Vectra/Insignia of the same ago... and you want to save a for quid on second hand tyres and using winters only on the front??

Suggest you have a look on Youtube at videos with good/winter tyres on the front and less so on the rear. I'm not trying to score points on you but I genuinely think you might be shocked as to the potential consequences of what you are doing.

We can dabate used tyres all day but they way I see it would you be happy if your daughters' boyfriend was using a second hand condom? No...
Already been down this debate ally before on here, i will say it again though, Snow chains on a 2wd generally go on the drive wheels only, so with that logic, i would much prefer winter tyres on the drive wheels at the least.

And as i said before on here the YT video that demonstrates the winter tyres on just the drive wheels is flawed in the way that, would anyone in the real world seriously take a roundabout or a hairpin bend in the snow at 40 mph, i know i never in a million years would, i have never had the back end step out on me like he managed to.

As for your used condom comparison, thats just crazy talk, no one would ever want to do that let alone daughter etc. where as many thousands use part worn tyres and as ive already stated, i have not had any issues with them since '94.
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Old Mar 25th, 2020, 09:15   #25
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Originally Posted by Tannaton View Post
.....Winters at least on the front ???

You own a Volvo for which you would have likely paid more to buy than a Mundano or a Vectra/Insignia of the same ago... and you want to save a for quid on second hand tyres and using winters only on the front??

Suggest you have a look on Youtube at videos with good/winter tyres on the front and less so on the rear. I'm not trying to score points on you but I genuinely think you might be shocked as to the potential consequences of what you are doing.

We can dabate used tyres all day but they way I see it would you be happy if your daughters' boyfriend was using a second hand condom? No...
On a FWD car, that makes sense. If the front grips, the back will generally follow, regardless of whether it has grip or not.
However, contrary to all the hype, a FWD car is not the best option in snow and ice.

Why?

Because as soon as you accelerate, no matter how gently, the laws of physics step in and transfer the weight to the rear of the car, reducing the weight (and hence the traction on the driving and in a FWD cars case, the steering wheels too) resulting in loss of control.

With a RWD car, any acceleration results in, you've guessed it, weight transfer to the rear - the driving wheels. Much less chance of wheelspin as a result and hence control is maintained.

There are many other reasons why a RWD car is much better in snow and ice, but in either case, you need the front wheels to have grip so winter tyres on the front will be a big help regardless of drivetrain.

What many people fail to realise these days in the current climate of having tyres that are wider than we've historically been used to is that in snow and ice, narrow tyres with a tall sidewall are much better. In other words, a 50 year old 144 with 165/15 tyres is almost certainly going to be better in snow and ice than a 30 year old 740 with 195/65/15s on it which in turn will still be better than an 18 year old S40 with 205/50/16s on.

However the best tool for safe driving in snow & ice is the one hanging on to the steering wheel. Drive smoothly, gently, avoiding any sharp or jerky movements (users of the push-pull steering method take note - it's bl00dy dangerous!) or acceleration/braking and visit a skid pan and learn skid control if you haven't already learned it through your driving experience.

As an ex-colleague of mine put on the insurance claim form after a minor accident in the ice in response to the question "What could you have done to avoid the accident?" - "Stayed in bed!". Prevention is better than cure!
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Old Mar 25th, 2020, 15:37   #26
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I'm in Canada and we got a sudden snow just before Christmas and had to drive. I put snow tires only on the front wheels and left the all seasons on the rear ones. On the highway, I had to slightly turn the steering to avoid a pothole. The car went spinning and crossing two lines with cars and ended in the ditch. From the moment the car went spinning, I don't remember anything only I woke up in the ditch. Miracle, I didn't hit any car. When the rear end looses grip, it happens so sudden, no way to react
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Old Mar 25th, 2020, 15:39   #27
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Already been down this debate ally before on here, i will say it again though, Snow chains on a 2wd generally go on the drive wheels only, so with that logic, i would much prefer winter tyres on the drive wheels at the least.

And as i said before on here the YT video that demonstrates the winter tyres on just the drive wheels is flawed in the way that, would anyone in the real world seriously take a roundabout or a hairpin bend in the snow at 40 mph, i know i never in a million years would, i have never had the back end step out on me like he managed to.

As for your used condom comparison, thats just crazy talk, no one would ever want to do that let alone daughter etc. where as many thousands use part worn tyres and as ive already stated, i have not had any issues with them since '94.
Well you seem to have done your home work, so I'll leave it at we have differing views, except I totally agree with your comments on narrow, taller tyres being better in snow.

But from an economic point point of view, I've never thought that second hand tyres add up either.

Say a new tyre costs £80 and has 8mm of tread of which 6 is usable (if you discard at 2mm, most would do so at 3mm) - that's £13.30 per 1mm tread.

Hence a used tyre with say 5mm of tread (3 usable) is worth £40 max, if it peforms exactly as a new one... plus your time getting them changed twice as often etc. To make them worthwhile they would really need to be £20 fitted and balanced.

Note also that all part worn tyres needs to be permanently marked "Part Worn" by law at point of sale. If your local seller isn't doing that - they're not compliant and may not be checking them as they should be for damage and integrity.

I did used to say I would rather buy a quality brand of part worn tyre than new cheap chinese budget tyres but now I'm not so sure... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN6JSH1f3rI
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Old Mar 25th, 2020, 17:56   #28
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Well you seem to have done your home work, so I'll leave it at we have differing views, except I totally agree with your comments on narrow, taller tyres being better in snow.

But from an economic point point of view, I've never thought that second hand tyres add up either.

Say a new tyre costs £80 and has 8mm of tread of which 6 is usable (if you discard at 2mm, most would do so at 3mm) - that's £13.30 per 1mm tread.

Hence a used tyre with say 5mm of tread (3 usable) is worth £40 max, if it peforms exactly as a new one... plus your time getting them changed twice as often etc. To make them worthwhile they would really need to be £20 fitted and balanced.

Note also that all part worn tyres needs to be permanently marked "Part Worn" by law at point of sale. If your local seller isn't doing that - they're not compliant and may not be checking them as they should be for damage and integrity.

I did used to say I would rather buy a quality brand of part worn tyre than new cheap chinese budget tyres but now I'm not so sure... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN6JSH1f3rI
It was actually me that said about the taller, skinnier tyres - guess we confused you as both Bashy and I quote you at a similar time!

I witheld my views on tyres but for what it's worth for the discussion, i gave up buying PWs quite some time back. Simple reason being that a new tyre, supply only, isn't that much dearer than a decent PW fitted, valved and balanced.

If you can do the fitting yourself and balance it yourself, you can save the cost of the basic tyre changing and static balancing machines on one set of tyres and have the reassurance of a new set of tyres.

After that, you save money on each set of tyres you fit.

Last set of tyres i fitted was in fact to my 760GLE about 3 years ago. Granted they were "budget radials" but four tyres supplied for £105 from a contact of mine. Fitted them over the course of a few days (basically a tyre a day), new valves and balanced them.

They've already lasted longer than the last set of part-worns i had and they cost me £30 a corner fitted etc.

As for winter tyres, in this country i don't really see the point as we have so few (realistically) days when we'd actually make proper use of them. As such, i prefer my "normal" tyres and just drive a bit more carefully.

For someone doing a fair bit of mileage and needing to go out regardless of the weather, they may well be a good idea. However that has to be weighed against the amount of truly snowy/icy days and whether the roads they're using have been gritted or not.

Many different opinions on that i suspect and it would, of necessity, be down to individuals choice.
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Old Mar 27th, 2020, 17:51   #29
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Delphi discs 40 quid a pair, but that's a moot point - the OP didn't seem to be wanting to fit them himself. (Before anyone raises the point, Delphi are one of the brands owned by Lockheed, so the provenance is fine).

And part worn tyres in this day and age!

Shop about, find a cheap supplier, that's great, but there comes a point that if you can't even afford proper rubber then you really are in the wrong car.
Good to know about Delphi discs, thanks, I've used B&B parts as found them a good balance of cost and quality.

Yes, part worn tyres on all my cars, have done for years, no problems, just purchased quality brands from reputable suppliers. I can afford 'proper' rubber thanks, I just don't blindly buy new / OEM parts when there are perfectly acceptable alternatives that are much cheaper
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Old Mar 31st, 2020, 23:19   #30
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^^^^^ What he said.

For every three new posters on here with problem cars, I'm convinced that 2 of those 3 are actually problem mechanics.

Needs new brake discs after 18 months? Unless you've done 70,000 miles - not likely. And if they're only charging £80 to do a wheel bearing, it will be a cheap chinese one and you'll likely be doing that again within a year (a mistake I have personally made).
correct!

A quality wheel bearing ie: SKF will cost you £80 to buy yourself, fitting on top.
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