Using water and running a tad rough

[Stephen Edwin]

My 200 SE 2 litre estate needed three litres of water for the cooling system this last week. It's running less than smoothly. And the exhaust was giving off vapour or smoke for rather a while during a journey. I'm thinking head gasket.

I haven't tried investigating yet. What diagnostic checks should I do? I should check each spark plug? Hold something behind exhaust outlet, try to see if it is vapour or smoke? What else?

I have heard that the head gasket is not difficult to replace on these engines? I did some head gaskets back in the days of overhead valve rockers, before OHC. If I have to do the gasket, is that a good time to change the cam belt which has done few miles but is several years old now? (I have the special tool ... )

I have neglected to use the car for two months before that day of only moderate journeys. It's fundamentally good and I would miss it very much. But I'm not terribly well to do stuff that would use it, and petrol money is not readily available. So I'm not at all sure whether to keep the car or not. But obviously I'd rather sort this issue out even if I sell it.

(My recent thoughts about a Riley were partly to reduce eg tax and MOT costs and also to get simpler mechanics. Plus nostalgia of course.)


P.S. ... I should add that I can't find any visible signs of any leaks.

[stephend]

It sounds like the HG is leaking between one of the combustion chambers and the water jacket. The "smoking gun" test is to get your friendly local MoT man to put the probe of his exhaust gas analyser in the space above the coolant in the header tank. An HG leak of this type will normally allow some exhaust gases through, and should show up on the detector.

Not sure what engine yours has. If it's a B200E, it's probably the easiest HG change you could wish for. Yes, a very good opportunity to renew the cambelt and tensioner, because that all has to come off anyway.

Edit: another sign is if you find there's still pressure when you crack open the cap of the expansion tank, even when the engine is stone cold after having been parked for a few days. That was the initial give-away when mine went...!

[Stephen Edwin]

That's an interesting test. Thank you.

It is the 200 engine, yes.

It may be a while before I can arrange that garage test. I haven't noticed the other giveaway, yet.

Oh by the way, I haven't noticed any problem with the oil. That has not gone a yuk off white mess, which can happen if a gasket leak lets the water mix with the oil

P.S. ... If the belt etc has to come off, that's not really "easy", compared to say a BMC A Series? But if so, I will be glad that I have already bought the special tool.

[stephend]

Originally Posted by Stephen Edwin

Oh by the way, I haven't noticed any problem with the oil. That has not gone a yuk off white mess, which can happen if a gasket leak lets the water mix with the oil

Unless the HG breaches between an oil channel and a water channel, then you won't get oil/water mixing - just depends on where the gasket decides to let go.

Re the belt, it will have to come off, but once the tension is released by pulling back the tensioner, the belt comes off ok. Biggest hassles are likely to be cracking the nut that holds the crank pulley on, and getting the exhaust manifold off, depending on the state of the studs/nuts - though mine came off without a hitch. I was advised to have the head skimmed as a precaution, so I also took the camshaft off before sending it to the shop, though I left the valves in place. I used new head bolts on reassembly, to be on the safe side. I also gave the breather system a thorough clean out, and cleaned up the inlet manifold while everything was off.

[Stephen Edwin]

Thank you. It does sound like rather a lot of work compared to the old style engines I was used to. I guess I will have to, have a go.

Hopefully having the Volvo tool will help in cracking that nut.

[wooble]

The only real difference is the presence of the belt, which really isn't that hard once you get into it. if you use a genuine volvo belt the timing marks are marked on te new belt, so it's impossible to put it back together, the only remotely difficult part is removing the crank pulley nut which requires the volvo tool or a big impact gun.

once you've removed the timing belt, it's just a matter of taking the manifolds off, disconnecting a few water pipes and plugs, valve cover, head bolts and bob's your uncle.

[Stephen Edwin]

Thank you Wooble. And as I said, I do have that Volvo tool.

I am not the confident spanner twiddler that I was in the past. I am going to have to face up to doing this. The thing is I am slowly getting recovered from a mental breakdown. That is to state the obvious, mind bending. I'm sort of in mixed thoughts, between wanting to get stuck in, and "oh dear please no do I really have to do that".

It will be a little while before I report back on this one. But I will eventually do the job.

[stephend]

Sorry to hear about your circumstances: I can quite see why you might be in two minds (no pun intended) about tackling this.

When I did mine, I'd never seriously dismantled an engine before. The issue was forced because the price the garage quoted, while perfectly fair, was more than the car was worth. So I hadn't got much to lose by tackling it. Upshot was that it all went reasonably smoothly, I learned a lot and got a lot of satisfaction out of doing it, and the car's still running well 50k miles on.

So I'd say, when you feel up to it, just go for it, slowly and calmly. Don't let yourself get disheartened by any setbacks: they're not your fault, just par for the course for that sort of work. And the satisfaction you'll feel when it's successfully fixed should be a great confidence (re-)builder. Best of luck!

[Stephen Edwin]

Thanks for replying again Stephen.

After a little cogitation, and finding a little emulsion under the oil filler cap, I reckon water is also in the oil. I will lift the head and carry on from there. I mustn't leave it too long.

A neighbour does cars out the back of his house. He poked briefly around my car's engine compartment this afternoon and he also pronounced, water in the oil.

When the I have taken the head off, my neighbour will look with me at the combustion chambers. I have this lurking memory of a Mini engine that overheated with head gasket symptoms, and it wasn't the gasket. It had a little hole in the head itself from the combustion chamber in to the water jacket.

I'm not ordering any parts, re the gasket or the cam belt, until I know what situation I find on dismantling. I'm expecting a "fulle gasket set" for the ehad and a belt and followers for the cambelt.

And yes thank you for reminding me Wooble, I had heard that an actual Volvo belt has very helpful guide markings. To pardon a different pun, getting the genuine Volvo belt could save me some head scratching ...

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by stephend

It sounds like the HG is leaking between one of the combustion chambers and the water jacket. The "smoking gun" test is to get your friendly local MoT man to put the probe of his exhaust gas analyser in the space above the coolant in the header tank. An HG leak of this type will normally allow some exhaust gases through, and should show up on the detector.

Not sure what engine yours has. If it's a B200E, it's probably the easiest HG change you could wish for. Yes, a very good opportunity to renew the cambelt and tensioner, because that all has to come off anyway.

Edit: another sign is if you find there's still pressure when you crack open the cap of the expansion tank, even when the engine is stone cold after having been parked for a few days. That was the initial give-away when mine went...!

Thank you and, Aha! I think that should be added to the routine under bonnet checks for cars.

I needed to use the car yesterday morning for a short journey between a few destinations. This afternoon I checked the water level in the header tank and, there was pressure. QED I think. And yes the water level has gone way down again.

Incidentally in a motor factor's place today I saw Steel Seal, Fixes 99% of Head Gaskets. £30 plus VAT. Hmmmmm. If internet "reviews" are genuine it has some possibly good value sometimes if one wants to go that route. I suppose on a long journey overseas it would be a comfort blanket to carry perhaps? But, I suspect it's really a reason to be extra vigilant when buying a second hand car ....