pulling to left on heavy breaking

1966 122s · Jul 20th, 2009, 10:50

Apologies for a Triumph Stag question. (The Stag is sitting next to the 122s honestly so hopefully I'm not breaking too many forum rules!)

My Stag pulls heavily to left on initial hard breaking. Then the breaking evens out on continued pressure or on a quick second press. If I do the same 30 seconds later then same heavy pull recurs. I suspect the problem has been there from buying the car , but now seems considerably worse. Not sure why ???

I also seem to be slowly using brake fluid. There is no sign of a leak...even at the brake pedal with carpet up.

I have bled the front right calliper, but did not see any air and no change in problem. This is the first time I have bled any calliper... so I guessed that I should bleed about 30ml of fluid... not sure if this is enough ???? I also did my best to wipe a bit of copper slip round the edge of the piston but was unable to move pistons back and for as I had hoped to. Problem still there.

I know the previous owner changed the front left calliper for a refurbished one just before I bought (2 years and 3000 miles ago).

My options seem to be:

Try to make a better job of bleeding front right calliper
or
Bleed whole system
or
buy a matching refurbished calliper from same supplier as left was bought 2 years ago (about £65)
or
take off my front right calliper and free up pistons ??

Most jobs on the cars are my first time of doing and I tend to spend hours doing the wrong thing first... so would aprechiate any advice before starting.

Any ideas on diagnsis and easiest way forward?

ClassicVolvoShop · Jul 20th, 2009, 11:19

Strong personal answer (that goes for any cars and any "first-time" DIY'ers):

Buy a set (left and right) refurbished callipers + new brake pads and quit waisting time on old "idiot-fix'es" - sorry, but I just don't understand how on Earth some people can be so ignorant when it comes to brakes. You ALWAYS change parts in set's - left and right at the same time. Always. Period.

Be a cheapo when it comes to all the other parts - but never on brakes, steering, tyres and safety.

It's clear that your callipers' pistons are seized. Never use copper-paste. Treat yourself with the wonderful succes-experience of changing some fairly easy bolt on/off parts - and the following huge brake-performance enhancement.

Getting your hands dirty over the cheapest solution - with only half the succes and feel-good experience - and then still having a potential bad braking system - is stupid..

You don't mention anything of the rear brakes?.. If drums - the leak might be there.. Anyway - a leak is something (no matter how few drops per week!) that sets the car in the garage untill 100% fixed.

Ron Kwas · Jul 20th, 2009, 11:23

?

...if you're certain that you have equal braking action, then I suggest a bushing is worn out/sloppy and allowing the left wheel to toe out, or right wheel to toe in under heavy loading...maybe someone on a Stag Forum has more hands-on experience...

Good Hunting

classicswede · Jul 20th, 2009, 13:17

With one old caliper and one almost new caliper you are not going to have to much chance of them pulling up evenly. You are now in a bit of a dilema as to just replace one to get both calipers close to each other or go the hole hog and replace both now with reconditioned units. If doing that take a look at the discs and even they are getting thin then replace them with new and new pads to do it all in one hit. Also check the condition of teh flexi hoses, if there is any sign of cracking or buldging then replace them.

The symptons you have described do suggest a caliper problem.

If it was a constant pull under braking then wishbone bushes would also be a suspect.

BTW what method have you been using to bleed the brakes?

asneddon · Jul 20th, 2009, 14:22

If it was anything else, then I would say have a play and see what you can fix. If reconditioned callipers are only £65 each, then dont risk your and others lives on the equivalent of a nice dinner out with the missus. Replace them both.

As its only pulling when you start heavy breaking, I doubt its bushes. It could be brake fluid on the pads or something, but a single reconditioned callaper is never a good thing to do. Im supprised the previous owner could buy a single one to be honest.

Derek UK · Jul 20th, 2009, 16:45

A simple test would be to take it down to your friendly MOT garage and individually check the efficiency of the 2 fronts. If they're equal it's not a caliper problem. If equal, he or you might like to check out all of the bushes in the front end. Possibly the radius arm bush at the chassis end. Check both sides.

1966 122s · Jul 20th, 2009, 18:31

Thanks for much apreciated advice. I had the same thought about an MOT type brake test and tried to get one this afternoon... but no-one over here seems to do them anymore. (Ireland.) One place suggested checking disk and drum temps after braking and these seem even... with possibly the right rear drum not as hot as left...
The rear pads are due and I have them in the garage so I will chenge these and investigate rears before ordering parts for the front.

... only 1500 miles difference....
I gave the mileage some tought and the left front refurbished calliper has only done about 1500 miles. The part and came off the shelf 19 months ago. Hence I am still tempted towards buying the exact match right calliper from the same supplier... only 1500 miles difference.... but will listen to advice if others think the 1500 miles difference in use is a mad idea. (Main issue is the time working on car and other problems I might trigger rather than the parts cost.) (Changing one side 19 months ago was previous owner!)

AidanC · Jul 20th, 2009, 19:43

When my steering box was leaking it rotted the bush on the nearest tie rod - that led to sudden attempts by the car to change direction while driving (usually prompted by road camber) but not so much under braking.

I'd suspect the caliper myself. Its also probably worth while replacing all flexi hoses unless they look fresh.

Mind you, it would be reasonable to assume that the newer caliper is working better than the one on the right hand side and that could well account for the pull - the seized/stiff pistons on the right would back that up.

I would think that unless the brake pedal is softer on first application and then hardens then air in the system isn't a big issue.

We should have an Amazon meet with the lads from Cork when Alf ista gets his windscreen trim and other bits sorted.

Alf ista · Jul 20th, 2009, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by AidanC

We should have an Amazon meet with the lads from Cork when Alf ista gets his windscreen trim and other bits sorted.

Sounds good to me. I feel an Amazon adventure coming on...

1966 122s · Jul 22nd, 2009, 20:53

Meeting up sounds good (AidanCand Alf Ista). Let me know if there are any plans. There's also a cream 122 around Bonmahon but I have no contact details. In the mean time there's a slim chance I'll get to the Inistioge rally this weekend. (Link below)

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/inistio...age.1651559.jp

Jul 20th, 2009, 10:50	#1
1966 122s Member Last Online: Apr 21st, 2013 20:05 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ireland	pulling to left on heavy breaking Apologies for a Triumph Stag question. (The Stag is sitting next to the 122s honestly so hopefully I'm not breaking too many forum rules!) My Stag pulls heavily to left on initial hard breaking. Then the breaking evens out on continued pressure or on a quick second press. If I do the same 30 seconds later then same heavy pull recurs. I suspect the problem has been there from buying the car , but now seems considerably worse. Not sure why ??? I also seem to be slowly using brake fluid. There is no sign of a leak...even at the brake pedal with carpet up. I have bled the front right calliper, but did not see any air and no change in problem. This is the first time I have bled any calliper... so I guessed that I should bleed about 30ml of fluid... not sure if this is enough ???? I also did my best to wipe a bit of copper slip round the edge of the piston but was unable to move pistons back and for as I had hoped to. Problem still there. I know the previous owner changed the front left calliper for a refurbished one just before I bought (2 years and 3000 miles ago). My options seem to be: Try to make a better job of bleeding front right calliper or Bleed whole system or buy a matching refurbished calliper from same supplier as left was bought 2 years ago (about £65) or take off my front right calliper and free up pistons ?? Most jobs on the cars are my first time of doing and I tend to spend hours doing the wrong thing first... so would aprechiate any advice before starting. Any ideas on diagnsis and easiest way forward?

Jul 20th, 2009, 11:19	#2
ClassicVolvoShop Schrödinger's Cat Cph! Last Online: Jan 5th, 2017 00:29 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Copenhagen	Strong personal answer (that goes for any cars and any "first-time" DIY'ers): Buy a set (left and right) refurbished callipers + new brake pads and quit waisting time on old "idiot-fix'es" - sorry, but I just don't understand how on Earth some people can be so ignorant when it comes to brakes. You ALWAYS change parts in set's - left and right at the same time. Always. Period. Be a cheapo when it comes to all the other parts - but never on brakes, steering, tyres and safety. It's clear that your callipers' pistons are seized. Never use copper-paste. Treat yourself with the wonderful succes-experience of changing some fairly easy bolt on/off parts - and the following huge brake-performance enhancement. Getting your hands dirty over the cheapest solution - with only half the succes and feel-good experience - and then still having a potential bad braking system - is stupid.. You don't mention anything of the rear brakes?.. If drums - the leak might be there.. Anyway - a leak is something (no matter how few drops per week!) that sets the car in the garage untill 100% fixed. __________________ '64 131, '64 221, '64 222, '96 945

Jul 20th, 2009, 13:17	#4
classicswede Trader Volvo in my veins Last Online: Today 19:12 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Anglesey	With one old caliper and one almost new caliper you are not going to have to much chance of them pulling up evenly. You are now in a bit of a dilema as to just replace one to get both calipers close to each other or go the hole hog and replace both now with reconditioned units. If doing that take a look at the discs and even they are getting thin then replace them with new and new pads to do it all in one hit. Also check the condition of teh flexi hoses, if there is any sign of cracking or buldging then replace them. The symptons you have described do suggest a caliper problem. If it was a constant pull under braking then wishbone bushes would also be a suspect. BTW what method have you been using to bleed the brakes? __________________ http://www.classicswede.org www.classicswede.co.uk

Jul 22nd, 2009, 20:53	#10
1966 122s Member Last Online: Apr 21st, 2013 20:05 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ireland	Meeting up Meeting up sounds good (AidanCand Alf Ista). Let me know if there are any plans. There's also a cream 122 around Bonmahon but I have no contact details. In the mean time there's a slim chance I'll get to the Inistioge rally this weekend. (Link below) http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/inistio...age.1651559.jp

Jul 20th, 2009, 11:23	#3
Ron Kwas Premier Member Last Online: May 19th, 2024 17:59 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Connecticut, USA	? ...if you're certain that you have equal braking action, then I suggest a bushing is worn out/sloppy and allowing the left wheel to toe out, or right wheel to toe in under heavy loading...maybe someone on a Stag Forum has more hands-on experience... Good Hunting

Jul 20th, 2009, 14:22	#5
asneddon Master Member Last Online: Nov 29th, 2021 23:46 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dunedin	If it was anything else, then I would say have a play and see what you can fix. If reconditioned callipers are only £65 each, then dont risk your and others lives on the equivalent of a nice dinner out with the missus. Replace them both. As its only pulling when you start heavy breaking, I doubt its bushes. It could be brake fluid on the pads or something, but a single reconditioned callaper is never a good thing to do. Im supprised the previous owner could buy a single one to be honest.

Jul 20th, 2009, 16:45	#6
Derek UK VOC Member Last Online: Today 11:16 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chatham	A simple test would be to take it down to your friendly MOT garage and individually check the efficiency of the 2 fronts. If they're equal it's not a caliper problem. If equal, he or you might like to check out all of the bushes in the front end. Possibly the radius arm bush at the chassis end. Check both sides.

Jul 20th, 2009, 18:31	#7
1966 122s Member Last Online: Apr 21st, 2013 20:05 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ireland	Thanks for much apreciated advice. I had the same thought about an MOT type brake test and tried to get one this afternoon... but no-one over here seems to do them anymore. (Ireland.) One place suggested checking disk and drum temps after braking and these seem even... with possibly the right rear drum not as hot as left... The rear pads are due and I have them in the garage so I will chenge these and investigate rears before ordering parts for the front. ... only 1500 miles difference.... I gave the mileage some tought and the left front refurbished calliper has only done about 1500 miles. The part and came off the shelf 19 months ago. Hence I am still tempted towards buying the exact match right calliper from the same supplier... only 1500 miles difference.... but will listen to advice if others think the 1500 miles difference in use is a mad idea. (Main issue is the time working on car and other problems I might trigger rather than the parts cost.) (Changing one side 19 months ago was previous owner!)

Jul 20th, 2009, 19:43	#8
AidanC Senior Member Last Online: Feb 6th, 2024 11:22 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kildare	When my steering box was leaking it rotted the bush on the nearest tie rod - that led to sudden attempts by the car to change direction while driving (usually prompted by road camber) but not so much under braking. I'd suspect the caliper myself. Its also probably worth while replacing all flexi hoses unless they look fresh. Mind you, it would be reasonable to assume that the newer caliper is working better than the one on the right hand side and that could well account for the pull - the seized/stiff pistons on the right would back that up. I would think that unless the brake pedal is softer on first application and then hardens then air in the system isn't a big issue. We should have an Amazon meet with the lads from Cork when Alf ista gets his windscreen trim and other bits sorted.

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